Heaven or Hell? You be the judge!
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30-05-2016, 06:46 AM
RE: Heaven or Hell? You be the judge!
(30-05-2016 06:43 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  These two things also implies that even in the afterlife, god is just as powerless and relies on gates for security.

Heaven is a gated community in order to keep out the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Mormon missionaries.
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30-05-2016, 08:17 PM
RE: Heaven or Hell? You be the judge!
(25-05-2016 03:21 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I found this on a random website today and it blew my mind a little bit because it's such an interesting idea:

"You reach the afterlife, but before you find out where you'll end up, you have to watch the entire life of someone and decide where they should go. What you don't know is all of your memories have been wiped and it's your own life you're watching."

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Based on my belief system I'd have to grant Eternal Life. Having said that I'm very relieved that I'm not The Judge of myself, let alone others.
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30-05-2016, 08:30 PM
RE: Heaven or Hell? You be the judge!
(25-05-2016 09:12 AM)Alla Wrote:  "Heaven" is Mercy.
"Hell" is Justice.
If my verdict is "heaven" then I will rob Justice.
If my verdict is "hell" then I will rob Mercy.


So, when I judge myself or anybody else, what should I rob "mercy" or "justice"
Good point. Third option is a mediator.

Law: Steal $1k, pay it back or go to jail for 1 year.

I steal $1k, don't have the money, so I'm sentenced to 1 year in jail. Justice.

Mediator pays the $1k on my behalf if I agree to his terms. I agree and am released from jail. Mercy.

Justice fulfilled.

Mercy fulfilled.

Neither are robbed.





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30-05-2016, 09:31 PM
RE: Heaven or Hell? You be the judge!
(30-05-2016 08:30 PM)LDS1 Wrote:  
(25-05-2016 09:12 AM)Alla Wrote:  "Heaven" is Mercy.
"Hell" is Justice.
If my verdict is "heaven" then I will rob Justice.
If my verdict is "hell" then I will rob Mercy.


So, when I judge myself or anybody else, what should I rob "mercy" or "justice"
Good point. Third option is a mediator.

Law: Steal $1k, pay it back or go to jail for 1 year.

I steal $1k, don't have the money, so I'm sentenced to 1 year in jail. Justice.

Mediator pays the $1k on my behalf if I agree to his terms. I agree and am released from jail. Mercy.

Justice fulfilled.

Mercy fulfilled.

Neither are robbed.

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Yeah, except (as we've already explained to Alla and gotten to enjoy the resounding "thunk" as it bounced off her skull) that no one stole anything.

Saying that our "sins against God" represent a debt, for simply acting like human beings, is akin to some random agent of a Mafia organization coming up to you and saying "You owe the boss money. He said you can't operate a business on this street without paying him, and now you owe. So pay up or be killed. Your choice."

Well, it's not really a choice, then, is it? It's extortion. It's blackmail. It's made even worse by the fact that we have no actual evidence of the existence of this being to which we supposedly owe the debt, only the claims of priests and prophets claiming to act on God's behalf. Your God (according to the aforementioned priests and prophets) demands obedience to the writings of a third party acting as agents of this ultimate force, for whom the others are messengers, saying that we are already in debt despite never agreeing to the debt, and then expecting us to buy that we should fork over our hard-earned cash... or, in this case, our free will.

No. God as defined by the Abrahamic religions (modern Reform Judaism being a notable exception) is a thug... at best. There is no justice in extortion. There is no mercy in letting me off the hook for a debt I did not agree in advance to incur. Even if I could somehow demonstrate unequivocally that the God your priests talk about is a real thing, and that the story is accurate, it would still make this God a monster to whom no one should give obedience or any other deference, let alone worship.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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30-05-2016, 10:07 PM
RE: Heaven or Hell? You be the judge!
RocketSurgeon76, I like your points. If it were as you said I'd have a hard time arguing against it.

I (Mormons) belive, and I think you might like the idea too, that the first law of heaven is freedom of choice. You feel that you are not given a choice. I disagree. Point of fact the very war in heaven was based on that issue. Satan wanted to destroy the agency of man (freedom to choose), which is why he got exiled from heaven.

We believe that God the Father created our spirits and we lived with him in what is referred to as the pre-earth life. There God revealed to us (you included) the Plan of Salvation. We had a choice to accept or reject. Those that accepted were given the right to come to earth to receive bodies.

In other words, you already voted for the plan and accepted it's terms and conditions in the pre-earth life.

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30-05-2016, 10:30 PM
RE: Heaven or Hell? You be the judge!
(30-05-2016 10:07 PM)LDS1 Wrote:  RocketSurgeon76, I like your points. If it were as you said I'd have a hard time arguing against it.

I (Mormons) belive, and I think you might like the idea too, that the first law of heaven is freedom of choice. You feel that you are not given a choice. I disagree. Point of fact the very war in heaven was based on that issue. Satan wanted to destroy the agency of man (freedom to choose), which is why he got exiled from heaven.

We believe that God the Father created our spirits and we lived with him in what is referred to as the pre-earth life. There God revealed to us (you included) the Plan of Salvation. We had a choice to accept or reject. Those that accepted were given the right to come to earth to receive bodies.

In other words, you already voted for the plan and accepted it's terms and conditions in the pre-earth life.

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31-05-2016, 01:12 AM
RE: Heaven or Hell? You be the judge!
(30-05-2016 10:07 PM)LDS1 Wrote:  RocketSurgeon76, I like your points. If it were as you said I'd have a hard time arguing against it.

I (Mormons) belive, and I think you might like the idea too, that the first law of heaven is freedom of choice. You feel that you are not given a choice. I disagree. Point of fact the very war in heaven was based on that issue. Satan wanted to destroy the agency of man (freedom to choose), which is why he got exiled from heaven.

We believe that God the Father created our spirits and we lived with him in what is referred to as the pre-earth life. There God revealed to us (you included) the Plan of Salvation. We had a choice to accept or reject. Those that accepted were given the right to come to earth to receive bodies.

In other words, you already voted for the plan and accepted it's terms and conditions in the pre-earth life.

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As a follower of the cannibal god (Mr Friesalot), I believe that everyone on the pre-earth agreed to be eaten as food as the main plan for their life. You already voted for this plan and accepted it in the pre-earth life.

I can seriously come up with a hundred more off the top of my head.

Please tell me you can see the HUGE flaw in believing such utter bullshit.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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31-05-2016, 01:22 AM
RE: Heaven or Hell? You be the judge!
(30-05-2016 06:43 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  The concepts of standing at the gates of heaven or getting pushed into the pit of hell are interesting to me.

Why does heaven need a gate ?
If people only go to one place or the other, then it would seem to me that the gate is there to keep people inside, imprisoned.

The pit, however doesn't have a gate and thus allows people to leave if you can climb out. Given that part, one might now see why heaven has a gate.

These two things also implies that even in the afterlife, god is just as powerless and relies on gates for security.
It's all symbolic right, rather than practical.

These stories make for easier understanding within simple minds. A gate is to fend you off, you need to deserve to get it. It's an exclusive club.

Hell being a pit shows that it isn't exclusive, its all encompasing. A pit being the path of least resistance, you would easily come to rest into the pit, you need to work to avoid going there.

So it's used as a hook for the churches etc, you need to join the church, obey, follow and give money to avoid going to hell and to get your reward of passing the gates to heaven.
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31-05-2016, 01:53 AM
RE: Heaven or Hell? You be the judge!
(30-05-2016 10:07 PM)LDS1 Wrote:  RocketSurgeon76, I like your points. If it were as you said I'd have a hard time arguing against it.

I (Mormons) belive, and I think you might like the idea too, that the first law of heaven is freedom of choice. You feel that you are not given a choice. I disagree. Point of fact the very war in heaven was based on that issue. Satan wanted to destroy the agency of man (freedom to choose), which is why he got exiled from heaven.

We believe that God the Father created our spirits and we lived with him in what is referred to as the pre-earth life. There God revealed to us (you included) the Plan of Salvation. We had a choice to accept or reject. Those that accepted were given the right to come to earth to receive bodies.

In other words, you already voted for the plan and accepted it's terms and conditions in the pre-earth life.

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So my pre-born self accepted a contract, that my earth-life self was entirely unaware of until someone told me I owe a debt?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

*gasping for air*

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Oh, oh man. Oh. Man. Tell me again about "perfect justice" and "perfect mercy"...

Wow, you Mormons are toooo much.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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31-05-2016, 02:15 AM
RE: Heaven or Hell? You be the judge!
(31-05-2016 01:53 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(30-05-2016 10:07 PM)LDS1 Wrote:  RocketSurgeon76, I like your points. If it were as you said I'd have a hard time arguing against it.

I (Mormons) belive, and I think you might like the idea too, that the first law of heaven is freedom of choice. You feel that you are not given a choice. I disagree. Point of fact the very war in heaven was based on that issue. Satan wanted to destroy the agency of man (freedom to choose), which is why he got exiled from heaven.

We believe that God the Father created our spirits and we lived with him in what is referred to as the pre-earth life. There God revealed to us (you included) the Plan of Salvation. We had a choice to accept or reject. Those that accepted were given the right to come to earth to receive bodies.

In other words, you already voted for the plan and accepted it's terms and conditions in the pre-earth life.

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

So my pre-born self accepted a contract, that my earth-life self was entirely unaware of until someone told me I owe a debt?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

*gasping for air*

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Oh, oh man. Oh. Man. Tell me again about "perfect justice" and "perfect mercy"...

Wow, you Mormons are toooo much.

All of this supposition without a single shred of evidence too, let's not forget.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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