Hell In The Old Testament
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14-05-2013, 01:34 PM
Hell In The Old Testament
For the traditionalist Christians on here, I have a question for you, if Hell is so important, and a place to be avoided at all costs, why does God not bother once to mention it in the Old Testament?

Sure, the English WORD Hell is used a few times, but this is mostly a mistranslation from "Sheol", the common grave of mankind. Besides, if God was trying to speak about Hell as we understand it today, don't you think he would describe the place?, as in an eternal pit of fire and torment?, but he doesn't, it's not until the NT Where a place of everlasting punishment is described.

The closest thing we get in the OT is a verse from Daniel which says something like;

"In that day, multitudes who are sleeping in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, others to eternal shame and contempt."

But even that's pretty vague.
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14-05-2013, 01:37 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
See, the problem here is that you're trying to use logic.

The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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14-05-2013, 01:44 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
Why would they mention that ? The Hebrew culture did not believe in immortality.
"Hell" got invented later. It's a "combo meal" of Greek Haedes, Sheol, the Jerusalem trash dump, (always burning with trash, and animal carcasses .. called Gehenna, where they also did child sacrifices, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna ), and a few other concepts. Good question. Tongue
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...other-look

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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14-05-2013, 02:23 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
Uh-huh.

Fail to mention? You mean like the people who were swallowed alive in Korah's rebellion and hundreds of thousands of Israelites saw it and Moses reiterated what happened in later lessons?

There's also:

Isaiah 66:

See, the Lord is coming with fire,
and his chariots are like a whirlwind;
he will bring down his anger with fury,
and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For with fire and with his sword
the Lord will execute judgment on all people,
and many will be those slain by the Lord.
**
22 “As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord. 24 “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”

and etc.

Again, someone is imposing their version of how God should communicate to them on the scriptures. As far back as Cain, God warned an individual of coming judgment and Romans 1 explains that no person who has ever lived, without or with the scriptures, is ignorant or unaware of divine judgment...
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14-05-2013, 02:28 PM (This post was last modified: 15-05-2013 01:18 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
Proves nothing. Just because the word fire is used. Grow up. Says nothing about a "place". Fundie NEEDS to keep everything intact, or all his nonsense falls apart. Weeping
Before you quote your Babble verses, you have to establish it's authority, and why anyone needs to listen to YOU talk about a book, about which you have no education.
Just because some ancient Israelite poet wrote something, is no reason why anyone needs to listen to it, or have the slightest reason to pay it any attention to it, SPJTJ.
Stop proselytizing. You're wasting your congregation's time and money. Have you nothing better to do ? Aren't you afraid they will find out what you do all day ? Zero.

Genesis 3:19 : "By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return."
YOU. Not "your body", not "your soul". You.

1 Corinthians 15:53 "For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality."
Saul of Tarsus did not believe in hell, or immortality except for the saved.

Too bad you know so little about your own cult, SPJTJ. Big Grin

Pleasy keeps telling me I'm Jewish. Obviously HE doesn't have the gift of prophesy, or discernment, and is perfectly comfortable stating things about which he has no information. But that's par for the course, for fundie clerics, as we all know.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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14-05-2013, 03:03 PM (This post was last modified: 14-05-2013 03:35 PM by docskeptic.)
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
(14-05-2013 02:23 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Uh-huh.

Fail to mention? You mean like the people who were swallowed alive in Korah's rebellion and hundreds of thousands of Israelites saw it and Moses reiterated what happened in later lessons?

PJ,
You mean Numbers 26:9-11, where it says "The sons of Eliab: Nemuel and Dathan and Abiram. These are the Dathan and Abiram who were called by the congregation, who contended against Moses and against Aaron in the company of Korah, when they contended against the LORD, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up along with Korah, when that company died, when the fire devoured 250 men, so that they became a warning. The sons of Korah, however, did not die."

So, then, according to you this verse would seem to suggest that Hell is just below the surface of the earth, somewhere in the crust. Hmm. Seems to me I've heard this story elsewhere:

Russian scientists conducting deep hole drilling experiments in Siberia break through the earth's crust at more than 14 kilometers. They find it unusually hot at that depth (2,000 degrees F). As a part of trying to listen to movement in the earth's crust, they drop a microphone into the drilled hole and are horrified when they realize they are hearing the voices of millions of people crying out in torment. Terrified, they decide to abandon the project, but not before a bat-like apparition arises from the hole and gives them a message. (http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/d/d...hell.htm).

The story was carried by a couple of Christian magazines in the 1990s and I remember hearing it seriously discussed by some televangelists.

Could the Russian scientists have drilled into hell and did they hear Korah and the 250 men? And what could the bat-like apparition possibly have said to the terrified scientists?

Doc
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14-05-2013, 03:27 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
(14-05-2013 02:23 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Uh-huh.

Fail to mention? You mean like the people who were swallowed alive in Korah's rebellion and hundreds of thousands of Israelites saw it and Moses reiterated what happened in later lessons?

There's also:

Isaiah 66:

See, the Lord is coming with fire,
and his chariots are like a whirlwind;
he will bring down his anger with fury,
and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For with fire and with his sword
the Lord will execute judgment on all people,
and many will be those slain by the Lord.
**
22 “As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord. 24 “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”

and etc.

Again, someone is imposing their version of how God should communicate to them on the scriptures. As far back as Cain, God warned an individual of coming judgment and Romans 1 explains that no person who has ever lived, without or with the scriptures, is ignorant or unaware of divine judgment...

Wha-

Are you serious?

The earth swallowed them up, does it say they were tortured forever? Nope.


"For with fire and with his sword the Lord will execute judgment on all people, and many will be those slain by the Lord". SLAIN, Not tortured forever in big pit of fire.

The DEAD Bodies of those who rebelled against me. Not their souls being tortured forever, their corpses.

Romans 1 Is irrelevant because it is NT

Nice try pal.
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14-05-2013, 07:02 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
Yeah, not seeing hell in the Isaiah passage either...

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14-05-2013, 07:15 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
So what I'm getting from this discussion, with all the scripture references attempting to prove the existence of hell, is that if the bible is bullshit - hell doesn't exist. Good. That's what I figured.

"Which is more likely: that the whole natural order is suspended, or that a jewish minx should tell a lie?"- David Hume
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14-05-2013, 07:26 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
Yeah pretty much.

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