Hell In The Old Testament
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16-05-2013, 06:12 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
(16-05-2013 01:57 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(16-05-2013 08:48 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Interesting. A purifying fire that never actually purifies (thus it's eternal). That omnipotent god fails again!
Not exactly. Consider this senario, a place where people are, who never learn to trust in the Holy God that is Love. Hence the fire is that Truth that burns forever, but without faith one can never learn. They are like men following an eternal line trying to prove it ends and will never find rest.

"but without faith one can never learn."

BULLSHIT! YOU ARE A LIAR!
Faith is an impediment to learning. It dumbs down people. Shame on you for promoting faith as a virtue!
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16-05-2013, 07:40 PM (This post was last modified: 16-05-2013 07:52 PM by TheGulegon.)
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
Off topic? Consider
Ah Hell, ...even when I believed, I thought I'd like to visit the Lake Of Fire just once. Awful......pretty if you ask me Big Grin


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16-05-2013, 07:49 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
(16-05-2013 06:12 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  BULLSHIT! YOU ARE A LIAR!
Faith is an impediment to learning. It dumbs down people. Shame on you for promoting faith as a virtue!

Thumbsup I have no words....except "bravo" this person told us in another thread we were all just thinking too much.

Yea if we'd just drink the cool aide all would be fine...

Uh huh.


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16-05-2013, 07:55 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
Well said, mark and mom. I can't even figure out what is being said, hence my previous huh/do-what reaction, most of it made no sense.

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17-05-2013, 10:26 AM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
(16-05-2013 01:57 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(16-05-2013 08:48 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Interesting. A purifying fire that never actually purifies (thus it's eternal). That omnipotent god fails again!
Not exactly. Consider this senario, a place where people are, who never learn to trust in the Holy God that is Love. Hence the fire is that Truth that burns forever, but without faith one can never learn. They are like men following an eternal line trying to prove it ends and will never find rest.
Where to begin... Blink

First, that explanation doesn't even exist in the Bible. Nor does it exist in the doctrines of any of the main Christian denominations. So apparently you, or the denomination that you believe in, are just making stuff up to avoid admitting the truth - that hell is such an absolutely horrid concept it couldn't possibly be compatible with a loving god.

Second, you failed to explain how this is not a failure of your god even with your made up explanation. You called it a purifying fire. If it never purifies then it either isn't really a purifying fire or god failed to make his purifying creation work properly. So which is it?

Third, you didn't explain why god would cause such suffering - whether literal flames or your version where it's truth that the unfaithful cannot learn. An omnipotent god could find some other way without any suffering. And don't bring up the free will excuse - this is god, the omnipotent one. He can do anything, right? So then he could find a way without suffering and without depriving us of free will. If you think that's illogical, don't forget your god created logic and can recreate it any way he so desires. Like it or not, to believe in your god mandates that you believe he directly causes unimaginable suffering. Your only other choice is to lie to yourself.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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17-05-2013, 12:31 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
(17-05-2013 10:26 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(16-05-2013 01:57 PM)childeye Wrote:  Not exactly. Consider this senario, a place where people are, who never learn to trust in the Holy God that is Love. Hence the fire is that Truth that burns forever, but without faith one can never learn. They are like men following an eternal line trying to prove it ends and will never find rest.
Where to begin... Blink

First, that explanation doesn't even exist in the Bible. Nor does it exist in the doctrines of any of the main Christian denominations. So apparently you, or the denomination that you believe in, are just making stuff up to avoid admitting the truth - that hell is such an absolutely horrid concept it couldn't possibly be compatible with a loving god.

Second, you failed to explain how this is not a failure of your god even with your made up explanation. You called it a purifying fire. If it never purifies then it either isn't really a purifying fire or god failed to make his purifying creation work properly. So which is it?

Third, you didn't explain why god would cause such suffering - whether literal flames or your version where it's truth that the unfaithful cannot learn. An omnipotent god could find some other way without any suffering. And don't bring up the free will excuse - this is god, the omnipotent one. He can do anything, right? So then he could find a way without suffering and without depriving us of free will. If you think that's illogical, don't forget your god created logic and can recreate it any way he so desires. Like it or not, to believe in your god mandates that you believe he directly causes unimaginable suffering. Your only other choice is to lie to yourself.

Not sure if you are aware of the god term thread, but you are arguing in futility here. childeye's theology is one of imaginary goalposts.

Quote:If you think that's illogical, don't forget your god created logic and can recreate it any way he so desires.

You are playing right into his hands here...have fun. Big Grin

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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17-05-2013, 12:38 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
I really wouldn't waste my breath or energy trying to engage Ce in any type of real discussion when it comes to religion. It's like trying to teach a pig to sing. The other thread went on for 250 pages of him saying essentially the same thing. It ended when we finally just stopped taking the bait.

When it's all been said...it's done.

Back to OP, I did always find that odd that everyone was always talking about hell...and it wasn't really mentioned.

A good friend once said they felt the few references made in the nt were added when king james had the bible reworked.

Dunno if that's true or not tho.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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17-05-2013, 01:18 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
(16-05-2013 06:12 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(16-05-2013 01:57 PM)childeye Wrote:  Not exactly. Consider this senario, a place where people are, who never learn to trust in the Holy God that is Love. Hence the fire is that Truth that burns forever, but without faith one can never learn. They are like men following an eternal line trying to prove it ends and will never find rest.

"but without faith one can never learn."

BULLSHIT! YOU ARE A LIAR!
Faith is an impediment to learning. It dumbs down people. Shame on you for promoting faith as a virtue!
Whoa take it easy. I'm not lying. Let us remember that the topic of Hell is a moral topic. It is about right and wrong regarding how we treat our fellow man. If you do not believe (have faith) that their exists a right or a wrong moral direction than you cannot posiibly learn right from wrong.
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17-05-2013, 01:30 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
(17-05-2013 01:18 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(16-05-2013 06:12 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  "but without faith one can never learn."

BULLSHIT! YOU ARE A LIAR!
Faith is an impediment to learning. It dumbs down people. Shame on you for promoting faith as a virtue!
Whoa take it easy. I'm not lying. Let us remember that the topic of Hell is a moral topic. It is about right and wrong regarding how we treat our fellow man. If you do not believe (have faith) that their exists a right or a wrong moral direction than you cannot posiibly learn right from wrong.

Hey child, just for the sake of sanity here. The OP is talking written scripture, not your own inspired take on what scripture is, just the scripture. If a certain passage is asked about, you can give your take on it, but as a whole we're just talking about where in the OT is hell obviously and blatantly talked about.

Your conjecture is unneeded unless dealing with what is actually written.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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17-05-2013, 01:55 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
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