Hell In The Old Testament
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14-05-2013, 09:45 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
It’s highly unlikely that Jesus, a dyed in the wool Jew, would have believed in hell. Jews never have, and still don’t, preach about such a place.

Many church people preach hellfire to vulnerable children. This is psychological bullying, nothing less than child abuse. Some adults still have vivid childhood memories of being terrified by the immense, unending pain in hell.

In the past, churches used hell to justify terrible behavior. They thought it gave them license to burn any helpless person they didn’t like; they were just beginning the roasting, on earth, that Satan was to continue for all eternity.

The concept of eternal punishment is immoral. It’s quite rightly an embarrassment to many modern Christians, who choose not to talk about this ancient/medieval mandate any more.
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14-05-2013, 09:56 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
(14-05-2013 09:45 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  It’s highly unlikely that Jesus, a dyed in the wool Jew, would have believed in hell. Jews never have, and still don’t, preach about such a place.

Many church people preach hellfire to vulnerable children. This is psychological bullying, nothing less than child abuse. Some adults still have vivid childhood memories of being terrified by the immense, unending pain in hell.

In the past, churches used hell to justify terrible behavior. They thought it gave them license to burn any helpless person they didn’t like; they were just beginning the roasting, on earth, that Satan was to continue for all eternity.

The concept of eternal punishment is immoral. It’s quite rightly an embarrassment to many modern Christians, who choose not to talk about this ancient/medieval mandate any more.

Frankly, the Bible is sort of confusing on Hell, at first, it seems to imply that one goes there immediately after death (such as Lazarus and the Rich Man), but in Revelation, it speaks of the wicked resurrected at the End of Days so they CAN be thrown into the Lake of Fire, how can you throw a lake of fire into a lake of fire?
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14-05-2013, 09:58 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
(14-05-2013 09:45 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  It’s highly unlikely that Jesus, a dyed in the wool Jew, would have believed in hell. Jews never have, and still don’t, preach about such a place.

Many church people preach hellfire to vulnerable children. This is psychological bullying, nothing less than child abuse. Some adults still have vivid childhood memories of being terrified by the immense, unending pain in hell.

In the past, churches used hell to justify terrible behavior. They thought it gave them license to burn any helpless person they didn’t like; they were just beginning the roasting, on earth, that Satan was to continue for all eternity.

The concept of eternal punishment is immoral. It’s quite rightly an embarrassment to many modern Christians, who choose not to talk about this ancient/medieval mandate any more.


EDIT: Sorry, double post.
Frankly, the Bible is sort of confusing on Hell, at first, it seems to imply that one goes there immediately after death (such as Lazarus and the Rich Man), but in Revelation, it speaks of the wicked resurrected at the End of Days so they CAN be thrown into the Lake of Fire, how can you throw a lake of fire into a lake of fire?
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14-05-2013, 10:09 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
(14-05-2013 09:56 PM)TheLastEnemy Wrote:  
(14-05-2013 09:45 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  It’s highly unlikely that Jesus, a dyed in the wool Jew, would have believed in hell. Jews never have, and still don’t, preach about such a place.

Many church people preach hellfire to vulnerable children. This is psychological bullying, nothing less than child abuse. Some adults still have vivid childhood memories of being terrified by the immense, unending pain in hell.

In the past, churches used hell to justify terrible behavior. They thought it gave them license to burn any helpless person they didn’t like; they were just beginning the roasting, on earth, that Satan was to continue for all eternity.

The concept of eternal punishment is immoral. It’s quite rightly an embarrassment to many modern Christians, who choose not to talk about this ancient/medieval mandate any more.

Frankly, the Bible is sort of confusing on Hell, at first, it seems to imply that one goes there immediately after death (such as Lazarus and the Rich Man), but in Revelation, it speaks of the wicked resurrected at the End of Days so they CAN be thrown into the Lake of Fire, how can you throw a lake of fire into a lake of fire?

There ain't a topic the babble isn't confused about.
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14-05-2013, 10:11 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
(14-05-2013 10:09 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(14-05-2013 09:56 PM)TheLastEnemy Wrote:  Frankly, the Bible is sort of confusing on Hell, at first, it seems to imply that one goes there immediately after death (such as Lazarus and the Rich Man), but in Revelation, it speaks of the wicked resurrected at the End of Days so they CAN be thrown into the Lake of Fire, how can you throw a lake of fire into a lake of fire?

There ain't a topic the babble isn't confused about.

The temple needs your money.

Thats the only coherent point in the thing

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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14-05-2013, 10:52 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
(14-05-2013 10:11 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(14-05-2013 10:09 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  There ain't a topic the babble isn't confused about.

The temple needs your money.

Thats the only coherent point in the thing

I happily stand corrected! So true!
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15-05-2013, 07:56 AM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
A 7th day adventist once tried to argue to me that hell was literally in the centre of the earth, based on a biblical line something like "Your enemies will be crushed under your feet". I tried to explain that this sounded to me more like a military metaphor, where standing on the bodies of slain enemies means that you are advancing and winning the battle. He ended up walking way calling me an antichrist. This was back when I was a Christian.

PJ, I'm afraid your selections of the text seem no more convincing than the 7th day adventist. Even from a Christian perspective I don't see how coming with chariots of fire or fiery swords bears any relationship to Hell. Don't you have better references?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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15-05-2013, 09:15 AM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
Quote:It’s highly unlikely that Jesus, a dyed in the wool Jew, would have believed in hell. Jews never have, and still don’t, preach about such a place.

Many church people preach hellfire to vulnerable children. This is psychological bullying, nothing less than child abuse. Some adults still have vivid childhood memories of being terrified by the immense, unending pain in hell.

In the past, churches used hell to justify terrible behavior. They thought it gave them license to burn any helpless person they didn’t like; they were just beginning the roasting, on earth, that Satan was to continue for all eternity.

The concept of eternal punishment is immoral. It’s quite rightly an embarrassment to many modern Christians, who choose not to talk about this ancient/medieval mandate any more.

The concept of eternal torture is medieval. The concept of eternal Hell is biblical, in both testaments. I understand that modern Judaism in most sects rejects Hell, they also often reject Heaven and have concepts of soul sleep. Both Heaven and Hell are in both testaments.

The real issue is you have decided/determined that eternal punishment is immoral. From what/where is your absolute standard of morality derived from that brought you to this conclusion, Mark?

Thanks.
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15-05-2013, 09:47 AM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
(15-05-2013 09:15 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  The concept of eternal Hell is biblical, in both testaments. I understand that modern Judaism in most sects rejects Hell, they also often reject Heaven and have concepts of soul sleep. Both Heaven and Hell are in both testaments.

The real issue is you have decided/determined that eternal punishment is immoral. From what/where is your absolute standard of morality derived from that brought you to this conclusion, Mark?

Thanks.

You forgot to support your lies with references. Nothing is true because you say it is, Reverend.

Lets see the references from both testaments. Then tell us when the concept changed in "modern Judaism" from an older one. You blow smoke out your ass all the time. Support your crap with references.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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15-05-2013, 10:24 AM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
(15-05-2013 09:15 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:It’s highly unlikely that Jesus, a dyed in the wool Jew, would have believed in hell. Jews never have, and still don’t, preach about such a place.

Many church people preach hellfire to vulnerable children. This is psychological bullying, nothing less than child abuse. Some adults still have vivid childhood memories of being terrified by the immense, unending pain in hell.

In the past, churches used hell to justify terrible behavior. They thought it gave them license to burn any helpless person they didn’t like; they were just beginning the roasting, on earth, that Satan was to continue for all eternity.

The concept of eternal punishment is immoral. It’s quite rightly an embarrassment to many modern Christians, who choose not to talk about this ancient/medieval mandate any more.

The concept of eternal torture is medieval. The concept of eternal Hell is biblical, in both testaments. I understand that modern Judaism in most sects rejects Hell, they also often reject Heaven and have concepts of soul sleep. Both Heaven and Hell are in both testaments.

The real issue is you have decided/determined that eternal punishment is immoral. From what/where is your absolute standard of morality derived from that brought you to this conclusion, Mark?

Thanks.

No, Please support your finding hell in the OT with actual verses that describe a place of eternal torment, if you cannot do so, please admit that hell is strictly a NT teaching.

And besides, you say eternal torture is medieval, while eternal hell is biblical, what is eternal hell if not eternal torture?
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