Hell In The Old Testament
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15-05-2013, 10:26 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
(15-05-2013 10:24 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(15-05-2013 10:16 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Sex obsessed? Look....we're all allowed a little fantasy or two...even Augustine.... he pondered over
“whether angels, inasmuch as they are spirits, could have bodily intercourse with women?” (The City of God, Book XV, Chapter 23). After much deliberation over an entirely imaginary subject, he concluded that they can and do, and that he had proof:
“Many proven instances, that Sylvans and Fauns, who are commonly called ‘Incubi,’ had often made wicked assaults upon women, and satisfied their lusts upon them: and that certain devils, called Duses by the Gauls, are constantly attempting and effecting this impurity.” (City of God, book xv, chapter 23).

Heh heh. THAT is hilarious. I may have to pop over to my *other* forum, and post that. (They're gonna boot me out one of these days).
Now I HAVE to get out my copy.

In the Compendium of Theology, Aquinas said the reason the snake went to Eve first, was "The light of reason shone less brightly in her".
They're not sexist. No. Not a bit. Dodgy

I am pretty convinced if the actual history of the babble were to ever come out as mainstream it would be the end of their little death cult.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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15-05-2013, 10:30 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
(15-05-2013 10:24 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(15-05-2013 10:16 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Sex obsessed? Look....we're all allowed a little fantasy or two...even Augustine.... he pondered over
“whether angels, inasmuch as they are spirits, could have bodily intercourse with women?” (The City of God, Book XV, Chapter 23). After much deliberation over an entirely imaginary subject, he concluded that they can and do, and that he had proof:
“Many proven instances, that Sylvans and Fauns, who are commonly called ‘Incubi,’ had often made wicked assaults upon women, and satisfied their lusts upon them: and that certain devils, called Duses by the Gauls, are constantly attempting and effecting this impurity.” (City of God, book xv, chapter 23).

Heh heh. THAT is hilarious. I may have to pop over to my *other* forum, and post that. (They're gonna boot me out one of these days).
Now I HAVE to get out my copy.

In the Compendium of Theology, Aquinas said the reason the snake went to Eve first, was "The light of reason shone less brightly in her".
They're not sexist. No. Not a bit. Dodgy

Can you put a link up to your other forum?
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15-05-2013, 10:31 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
(15-05-2013 10:26 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(15-05-2013 10:24 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Heh heh. THAT is hilarious. I may have to pop over to my *other* forum, and post that. (They're gonna boot me out one of these days).
Now I HAVE to get out my copy.

In the Compendium of Theology, Aquinas said the reason the snake went to Eve first, was "The light of reason shone less brightly in her".
They're not sexist. No. Not a bit. Dodgy

I am pretty convinced if the actual history of the babble were to ever come out as mainstream it would be the end of their little death cult.

The time is coming. The internet is a powerful tool.
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16-05-2013, 08:01 AM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
(15-05-2013 10:26 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(15-05-2013 10:24 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Heh heh. THAT is hilarious. I may have to pop over to my *other* forum, and post that. (They're gonna boot me out one of these days).
Now I HAVE to get out my copy.

In the Compendium of Theology, Aquinas said the reason the snake went to Eve first, was "The light of reason shone less brightly in her".
They're not sexist. No. Not a bit. Dodgy

I am pretty convinced if the actual history of the babble were to ever come out as mainstream it would be the end of their little death cult.

Hey Rev, I used to think that too but in order for that to happen the faithful have to take their fingers out of their ears and stopped chanting blah blah blah. Haven't you looked at one of the Bible apologisits in the eye, shown them a certain hideous passage in the book and been told "you're taking that out of context"?

I think the ones that can be reached will be the younger generation and they need to be exposed to people like us...well maybe not like me, but certainly like you and have honest discussions. When I see the "textbooks" being peddled to the children on one of the other threads I lose much hope.

A few of my collected quotes regarding this topic:

If you get a lot of heavy ideology young -- and then you start expressing it -- you are really locking your brain into a very unfortunate pattern.
Charlie Munger Berkshire Hathaway

Religions are often the state-protected nurseries of pseudoscience…
Carl Sagan

We were allowed to read the bible as we do all other books, we would admire its beauties, treasure its worthy thoughts, and account for all its absurd, grotesque and cruel things, by saying that its authors lived in rude, barbaric times. But we are told that it was written by inspired men; that it contains the will of God; that it is perfect, pure, and true in all its parts; the source and standard of all moral and religious truth; that it is the star and anchor of all human hope; the only guide for man, the only torch in Nature’s night. These claims are so at variance with every known recorded fact, so palpably absurd, that every free, unbiased soul is forced to raise the standard of revolt.
Robert Green Ingersoll

It is not moral to teach children and uneducated and ignorant people nonsense.
Christopher Hitchens

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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16-05-2013, 08:48 AM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
(15-05-2013 06:27 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(15-05-2013 06:17 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Augustine, a "philosophical genius of the first order" (according to the Catholic Encyclopedia) attempted to explain how people could survive fire in hell without being consumed, and wrote two chapters in City of God, on the topic, the first entitled
“Whether it is Possible for Bodies to last Forever in Burning Fire,” and the second
“Examples from Nature Proving That Bodies May Remain Unconsumed and Alive in Fire.”

So there! Hell does exist, cos Augustine said so.
I'm not familiar with Augustine but I do know that the fire spoken of is not like the fire we know. God's fire is a purifying fire.
Interesting. A purifying fire that never actually purifies (thus it's eternal). That omnipotent god fails again!

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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16-05-2013, 08:56 AM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
(15-05-2013 08:29 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(15-05-2013 07:18 PM)TheLastEnemy Wrote:  But you admit there is no indication of an eternal torment in hell?
Scripture speaks of torment. The "eternal" word is tricky. It may not mean eternal at all or in a way we misinterpret. It could be just a lesser existence. Or as I said just a replay of our flesh existence.
"For God so loved the world that he spoke clearly to its inhabitants that they may not be required to guess, interpret, or otherwise wrestle mentally with His intended meaning." Oh wait, that's not how it goes...

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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16-05-2013, 10:44 AM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
(16-05-2013 08:01 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(15-05-2013 10:26 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I am pretty convinced if the actual history of the babble were to ever come out as mainstream it would be the end of their little death cult.

Hey Rev, I used to think that too but in order for that to happen the faithful have to take their fingers out of their ears and stopped chanting blah blah blah. Haven't you looked at one of the Bible apologisits in the eye, shown them a certain hideous passage in the book and been told "you're taking that out of context"?

I think the ones that can be reached will be the younger generation and they need to be exposed to people like us...well maybe not like me, but certainly like you and have honest discussions. When I see the "textbooks" being peddled to the children on one of the other threads I lose much hope.

A few of my collected quotes regarding this topic:

If you get a lot of heavy ideology young -- and then you start expressing it -- you are really locking your brain into a very unfortunate pattern.
Charlie Munger Berkshire Hathaway

Religions are often the state-protected nurseries of pseudoscience…
Carl Sagan

We were allowed to read the bible as we do all other books, we would admire its beauties, treasure its worthy thoughts, and account for all its absurd, grotesque and cruel things, by saying that its authors lived in rude, barbaric times. But we are told that it was written by inspired men; that it contains the will of God; that it is perfect, pure, and true in all its parts; the source and standard of all moral and religious truth; that it is the star and anchor of all human hope; the only guide for man, the only torch in Nature’s night. These claims are so at variance with every known recorded fact, so palpably absurd, that every free, unbiased soul is forced to raise the standard of revolt.
Robert Green Ingersoll

It is not moral to teach children and uneducated and ignorant people nonsense.
Christopher Hitchens

I prefer to take the optimistic view. Even in the backwater 3rd world country of America we are trending to be less religious. The under 30 crowd is very non-church going. Also by mainstream I mean that it would be common knowledge, in that laymans guide to history that most people think they know (be nice if more than who won ww2 was correct in that)

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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16-05-2013, 11:19 AM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
(14-05-2013 07:49 PM)Heathen Wrote:  Meh, that's tame.

"I have wiped out many nations, devastating their fortress walls and towers. Their cities are now deserted; their streets are in silent ruin. There are no survivors to even tell what happened. I thought, 'Surely they will have reverence for me now! Surely they will listen to my warnings, so I won't need to strike again.' But no; however much I punish them, they continue their evil practices from dawn till dusk and dusk till dawn." So now the LORD says: "Be patient; the time is coming soon when I will stand up and accuse these evil nations. For it is my decision to gather together the kingdoms of the earth and pour out my fiercest anger and fury on them. All the earth will be devoured by the fire of my jealousy. "On that day I will purify the lips of all people, so that everyone will be able to worship the LORD together. My scattered people who live beyond the rivers of Ethiopia will come to present their offerings. (Zephaniah 3:6-10 NLT)
Has that happened? Is a few thousand years of not happening long enough to call god a promise breaker?

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16-05-2013, 12:38 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
(16-05-2013 11:19 AM)KeenIdiot Wrote:  
(14-05-2013 07:49 PM)Heathen Wrote:  Meh, that's tame.

"I have wiped out many nations, devastating their fortress walls and towers. Their cities are now deserted; their streets are in silent ruin. There are no survivors to even tell what happened. I thought, 'Surely they will have reverence for me now! Surely they will listen to my warnings, so I won't need to strike again.' But no; however much I punish them, they continue their evil practices from dawn till dusk and dusk till dawn." So now the LORD says: "Be patient; the time is coming soon when I will stand up and accuse these evil nations. For it is my decision to gather together the kingdoms of the earth and pour out my fiercest anger and fury on them. All the earth will be devoured by the fire of my jealousy. "On that day I will purify the lips of all people, so that everyone will be able to worship the LORD together. My scattered people who live beyond the rivers of Ethiopia will come to present their offerings. (Zephaniah 3:6-10 NLT)
Has that happened? Is a few thousand years of not happening long enough to call god a promise breaker?

Those who can do nothing else become a member of the priestly class. There is always a new crop of those with no other skills. Weeping

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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16-05-2013, 01:57 PM
RE: Hell In The Old Testament
(16-05-2013 08:48 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(15-05-2013 06:27 PM)childeye Wrote:  I'm not familiar with Augustine but I do know that the fire spoken of is not like the fire we know. God's fire is a purifying fire.
Interesting. A purifying fire that never actually purifies (thus it's eternal). That omnipotent god fails again!
Not exactly. Consider this senario, a place where people are, who never learn to trust in the Holy God that is Love. Hence the fire is that Truth that burns forever, but without faith one can never learn. They are like men following an eternal line trying to prove it ends and will never find rest.
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