Hell........
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16-01-2011, 12:06 AM
 
RE: Hell........
I am sorry to hear about your condition. I hope that you are able to get out and enjoy some things while you can, and not be tormented by your thoughts. Perhaps try to get into some Sci-fi or something?

Stark Raving- I have also thought of being dead being the same as before you were born. That is comforting because I do not have any bad memories prior to 1983. Smile While I have an open mind to many possibilities I believe that idea is most probable (the concept of heaven and hell are too simple). What was before and after THAT? Maybe our "energy" gets recycled into a different organism (reincarnation being a possibility), or maybe getting shipped off to a different universe, or maybe just nothing at all...

This video I recently watched made a big impact on my view of the bible and validity of religion. If the facts are accurate, it really does make it all seem like such a fable, so how could hell really exist? I hope it will make you feel a bit better.
http://www.atheistmedia.com/2011/01/hist...art-1.html
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16-01-2011, 02:38 AM
RE: Hell........
I'm sure I speak for the entire forum when I say you have our sympathy and support.

Enjoy life as much as you can and fight , don't let any condition drag you down. Live life to the fullest.
I can't say what happens when we die , I simply don't know - but that doesn't give me the right to torment your mind with images of fire and suffering because you refused to bow down to my way of thinking.

Here's a great video on the subject : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbrQI0r1B7w
(the part about hell is at 4:00)
I recommend this youtuber's work.And I hope this video puts your mind at ease.

As a final note , I do KNOW your energy was part of this universe for all eternity.Energy can never be destroyed only transfered. The energy that makes up your body today may be part of 50 different stars a millennium from now.In one form or another , you will exist always.-this always brings me comfort and I hope it does the same for you.
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16-01-2011, 05:42 AM
 
RE: Hell........
(16-01-2011 02:38 AM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  Here's a great video on the subject : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbrQI0r1B7w
(the part about hell is at 4:00)
I recommend this youtuber's work.And I hope this video puts your mind at ease.

As a final note , I do KNOW your energy was part of this universe for all eternity.Energy can never be destroyed only transfered. The energy that makes up your body today may be part of 50 different stars a millennium from now.In one form or another , you will exist always.-this always brings me comfort and I hope it does the same for you.

The video was cool Smile It really shows how people will believe in anything, and they would continue to believe in their God despite any evidence shown to them that shows their beliefs are untrue. What do you all think of the Zeitgeist movie about religion?

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vm_wh-84D8
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGU2jsfFU...re=related
Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVJipQLwA...re=related

Did anybody get a chance to watch the TV show i linked?

Its quite confusing to me when people talk about your energy leaving your body and floating into the afterlife as they are probably clueless about energy.. there are 10 basic types of energy; Magnetic, Kinetic, Heat, Light, Gravitational Potential, Chemical, Sound, Electrical,
Potential and Nuclear. None of those would be able to exit our body to form a replica of ourselves in any kind of afterlife. What makes us individuals are our brains, capable of emotions, memories, cognitive abilities and once our brain dies we are no longer capable of these things. I don't know why people think when they die, they are going to end up being themsevles in an afterlife when their brain is no longer functioning.
(16-01-2011 12:06 AM)Free_Thinker Wrote:  Perhaps try to get into some Sci-fi or something?

I have been watching a few sci-fi/fantasy things. They are filled with things we know aren't possible and I wouldn't question the plausibility of those things happening as I know they wont.. It's just that death is so.. unknown.. one or more things, or fewer could happen when we die and there really is no way to observe anything. Ill link to some of the shows I have been watching.

Eureka (Watch episodes uploaded to loombo.com)
http://tv.blinkx.com/show/eureka/2f4piJO...sDV7A#s1e1

No Ordinary Family (Watch episodes uploaded to loombo.com)
http://tv.blinkx.com/show/no-ordinary-fa...41Ig7#s1e1

Doctor who (Watch episodes uploaded to loombo.com)
http://tv.blinkx.com/show/doctor-who/7cE...-6iEU#s1e1
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16-01-2011, 08:42 AM
RE: Hell........
The Zeitgeist movie is poorly made.See some people debunking it.The conspiracies are baseless and often misrepresent facts(an example of the top of my head : they said the steel pillars were cut by explosives , in fact they were cut by workers clearing the rubble on sept 12)
The religion part has problems as well - look it up.
Here's a start:
http://conspiracyscience.com/articles/zeitgeist/

As for energy , it can take many shapes and forms but it can never be destroyed or created only transfered.Your energy will exist forever in some form of other forever.Your body is just a small step in an endless ocean of energy.
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16-01-2011, 09:02 AM
 
RE: Hell........
(16-01-2011 08:42 AM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  As for energy , it can take many shapes and forms but it can never be destroyed or created only transfered.Your energy will exist forever in some form of other forever.Your body is just a small step in an endless ocean of energy.

I want to learn more about open and closed systems..I'm a bit of a noob with it at the moment. In a closed system, energy can't be created or destroyed, and if energy can't be created or destroyed then it must have existed forever, right? Is the universe an open or closed system? and what evidence is there to support the answer

(16-01-2011 08:42 AM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  The Zeitgeist movie is poorly made.See some people debunking it.The conspiracies are baseless and often misrepresent facts(an example of the top of my head : they said the steel pillars were cut by explosives , in fact they were cut by workers clearing the rubble on sept 12)
The religion part has problems as well - look it up.
Here's a start:
http://conspiracyscience.com/articles/zeitgeist/

Hmm. I guess people will just believe in things without researching just like I did, as I assumed the zeitgeist movie was correct. It seems as though if you hold a certain belief you will try to find things that support your belief without really questioning it.
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16-01-2011, 09:29 AM
RE: Hell........
One of my saddest moments in becoming a nontheist was not losing heaven, but losing Hell.

All of a sudden, telling someone to go to Hell seemed so hollow.

Also realizing that people who really deserve to be punished for eternity for their crimes against humanity are just dead...

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16-01-2011, 09:33 AM
 
RE: Hell........
(16-01-2011 05:42 AM)Speiraz Wrote:  Its quite confusing to me when people talk about your energy leaving your body and floating into the afterlife as they are probably clueless about energy.. there are 10 basic types of energy; Magnetic, Kinetic, Heat, Light, Gravitational Potential, Chemical, Sound, Electrical,
Potential and Nuclear. None of those would be able to exit our body to form a replica of ourselves in any kind of afterlife. What makes us individuals are our brains, capable of emotions, memories, cognitive abilities and once our brain dies we are no longer capable of these things. I don't know why people think when they die, they are going to end up being themsevles in an afterlife when their brain is no longer functioning.

I (and I would say "we" for most of us as well) would agree with this. Of course if your energy gets transferred by say a chemical reaction, and you are composted in the ground and help to grow a tree, you will not be a conscious tree capable of thought or feeling. Even if you were able to simply exit your body and enter that of a squirrel, you would not have conscious thought and realize that you are a squirrel. The only thing you think about is how to find nuts! But they still feel basic physical experience like "I am cold" or "car ran over my tail, it HURTS!"

The whole topic of consciousness is an interesting discussion when you talk about people who are in a vegetative state, or those who are severely mentally retarded. Do they perceive the world around us as most of us do? Are vegetative people really "there"? There will usually be some sign of brain activity, but the we know so little about the brain it is hard to know if it is conscious activity or just random neurotransmitters keeping the grey matter warm. People with severe mental retardation- while they may be awake (I struggle to use the term conscious) do they experience the world any different then a squirrel or snail or underwater sea creature? If not, the good thing is they likely don't mind.

So you could argue that our minds (being capable of conscious thoughts) are simply a mixture of chemical and electrical energy (and possibly some other forms of the 10 physical energies you listed). That ultimately leads to the question of our consciousness and if it is just that, or if we do in fact have another form of energy that perhaps we can not really measure or study. Out of body experiences are likely the best "real world" example that we could study scientifically. I don't care what people say, I still find those shows on TV fascinating when someone has a heart attack or whatever and basically dies- is rushed to the ER, and they have out of body experience and can recall what people around them were wearing, or what people in a different room were talking about. As long as these phenomenon are not made up after the fact and can not truly be explained, well I guess they can not be explained! I am not saying that we do in fact float out of our body and become ghosts or go to heaven or hell. I just try and keep an open mind, because in the end it could be one big surprise... or not.
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16-01-2011, 09:36 AM
RE: Hell........
whoa hey now Seasbury.

Think about what you just said for a moment. Were talking about taking finite crimes however massive they may be and punishing someone with torture for all time. For all time....

Granted some people have done some horribly wrong things but take a moment to seriously think about if a non ending punishment could ever fit a finite crime.

The reason god is such a monster is for me at least the fact that he punishes with eternal suffering for but one small lifetime.
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16-01-2011, 09:50 AM
 
RE: Hell........
(16-01-2011 09:29 AM)Seasbury Wrote:  Also realizing that people who really deserve to be punished for eternity for their crimes against humanity are just dead...

On the bright side, since they are dead they are unable to continue doing any of these things. I know that doesn't take away from the things that they have done, but at least it will be prevented in the future because of their death.
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16-01-2011, 10:09 AM
RE: Hell........
Hey, Speiraz.

I wanted to ask you a personal question on the subject of aproaching death.

A couple of years ago, a doctor told me, "you may have lymphoma." The following three moths were awful because I didn't know what to make peace with. Was I gonna beat it? Was it inoperable? Would chemo work? Would I be told I had 4 weeks to live? Was it nothing? It was a very difficult time for me. (In the end, it wasn't cancer)

You've been asking about the afterlife because you're aproaching death. If you don't mind me asking, what is it that you have made peace with and what is it that you cannot reconcille? I ask because when I was faced with the 4 week possibility, I didn't know how to handle it (that's a poorly expressed feeling). I guess what I mean is, I don't know how to deal with death and I was wondering if you could share your experience, hoping that it will help me when my time comes.

Thank you very much for just reading this.

I'd also just like to add, if there is any emotional support that I can give you, please feel free to indulge either in the forums or through private messages.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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