Hell........
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16-01-2011, 10:14 AM (This post was last modified: 16-01-2011 10:32 AM by Seasbury.)
RE: Hell........
(16-01-2011 09:36 AM)Godless Wrote:  whoa hey now Seasbury.

Think about what you just said for a moment. Were talking about taking finite crimes however massive they may be and punishing someone with torture for all time. For all time....

Granted some people have done some horribly wrong things but take a moment to seriously think about if a non ending punishment could ever fit a finite crime.

The reason god is such a monster is for me at least the fact that he punishes with eternal suffering for but one small lifetime.

It's all moot anyway, as Hell is as much a fantasyland as Olympus (or Hades) or Vallahala. Just saying...The day you realize that Hell doesn't exist is followed shortly by the realization that Hitler, or pick your favorite mass murderer, ain't there...Not necessarily talking about the merits of eternal punishments.

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16-01-2011, 10:47 AM
 
RE: Hell........
(16-01-2011 10:09 AM)Ghost Wrote:  You've been asking about the afterlife because you're aproaching death. If you don't mind me asking, what is it that you have made peace with and what is it that you cannot reconcille? I ask because when I was faced with the 4 week possibility, I didn't know how to handle it (that's a poorly expressed feeling). I guess what I mean is, I don't know how to deal with death and I was wondering if you could share your experience, hoping that it will help me when my time comes.

Thank you very much for just reading this.

I'd also just like to add, if there is any emotional support that I can give you, please feel free to indulge either in the forums or through private messages.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

Perhaps I handle knowing that I will die the same way as you handle knowing that you are going to die. I'm just closer to it than you are. A Death happens every second, it could happen to anyone and if you allow that to take advantage of your emotions then it will.
How you cope with it may depend on how much you want to live and what you have to live for. There are no people in my life who require me for support so there isn't too much of a reason for me to be scared of going. Death is really just becoming a nuisance and sometimes I wish it would just happen already. For some reason the only things that bother me is that my body still exists after I die and people will have to deal with the disposing of the body, and wondering if anything happens after death.
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16-01-2011, 11:38 AM
RE: Hell........
Speiraz

First, I'm very sorry to read about your situation. As for your question, I think it's impossible for any person to really answer it. I'm sure there are not shortage of personal opinions masquerading as facts on this particular topic, but the truth is that no one really knows what happens to us when we die. That is probably why most of us fear it. It is in our nature to stay alive, it is a trait shared by all living organisms on this planet. Even the most basic life forms on the planet share the trait of survival. For human beings, who have the gift (or the curse) of self awareness we are also plagued by notions of our own mortality, probably more than any other species because we are so aware of death and we have no idea what it really means.

As for what happens next, there is probably no value in me offering my own speculative opinion. There is no evidence to support the notions of a hell or a heaven, and I sincerely believe there is no reason to worry about it. And, again, that is just my speculative opinion. However, no matter what you believe, the idea that normal people who take care of their family and their loved ones and live the best lives they can will be eternally damned due to some slight or not following one text or another to its literal truth is simply so absurd that it cannot possibly be true. And if it is, and hell is where we all end up, then I'm comforted by the fact that I'll be in the very best of company.

Very best of luck to you.

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16-01-2011, 01:54 PM
RE: Hell........
Feel reassured in the knowledge that when one dies we all face the same situation in the same way, no matter what anyone believes. There is no way for anyone to know what the transition is like and no way to know anything beyond. The only thing you can be sure of is that the will be no suffering of any kind after death. Samuel Clemins (aka Mark Twain) said "I have not existed for billions of years before I was born and have suffered no ill effects from it."

All my best. May your time with us be as enjoyable as possible, and hopefully a lot longer than you expect. Wink

When I find myself in times of trouble, Richard Dawkins comes to me, speaking words of reason, now I see, now I see.
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16-01-2011, 08:50 PM
RE: Hell........
I like what BnW said
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18-01-2011, 12:52 PM
 
RE: Hell........
well I was pmed by theophilus and i just wondered why they decided to make it private instead of putting it on this forum thread

theophilus Wrote:I have just read the thread you started on hell. Perhaps the reason you are thinking about hell so much is that God is warning you that you are in danger of going there.

One statement you made shows that you have some misconceptions about why anyone goes there.
Quote:you know, the place where you suffer for all eternity for choosing to think differently than what a book tells you to...
God has given all of us an inborn knowledge of right and wrong and none of us have lived up to it. Because God is holy and just he must punish all sin. The only way we can escape being punished for our sins is for someone else to voluntarily take the punishment we deserve. That is what Jesus Christ did when he died for us. Here is an explanation of what is involved and how you can have your sins forgiven:

http://carm.org/jesus-saves

If you want to know more about this here is a forum where you can find out:

http://www.christiandoctrinediscussion.com/

If you want to know whether there is a God the best way to find out is simply ask him to reveal himself to you. The existence of God isn't some abstract fact that you must discover by examining the evidence. God is a person and the only way to know him is to communicate with him. The only condition is that you must be willing to do his will when you find out what it is.


My reply:

Speiraz Wrote:I'm not bothered about it any more. There are so many theories about what happens after you die yet there is absolutely no evidence to support any of them. Just because it is written in a book doesn't make it true. Especially when it is written in a book with so many other lies, for example, lets analyse prayer. No unambiguous prayer will ever be answered. If we look at the bible passage Mark 11:24: "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." If what the bible says is true, if you pray for something you will receive it. This is also verified in Matthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, John 14:12-14, Matthew 18:19 and James 5:15-16. I want you and all of the religious people you know to gather around and pray. "Dear God, we ask that all cancer suddenly be cured, we know you will do this as you are all loving and all powerful and it is said in the bible that you will give us anything we ask for and I'm sure you would love to stop your own children from dying of cancer, Amen" If what the bible says is true then all cancer will be cured. But of course it wont because what is written in the bible is a lie, so what stops other things in the bible being lies? Especially when there is no evidence to suggest that the notion of hell has even the slightest plausibility.


I want you to think for 5minutes and then tell me why you think Hell is real? And don't use the bible to try and prove the bible....
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18-01-2011, 01:02 PM
RE: Hell........
theophilus Wrote:God is a person and the only way to know him is to communicate with him. The only condition is that you must be willing to do his will when you find out what it is.

Really? Cool! And the earth is the Jerry Springer show on channel 789 on god's cable TV. God occasionally tunes in out of morbid curiosity and when he/she/it needs to feel better about itself.

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18-01-2011, 02:01 PM
RE: Hell........
Speiraz
I find it appalling that theists are making an effort to your emotions - especially given what you've said.
That is just ... low.
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18-01-2011, 07:39 PM
 
RE: Hell........
Remember that Christopher Hitchens has stage 4 esophageal cancer. I do not know how well he is doing but he was well enough to DESTROY former prime minister Tony Blaire in a recent debate. It really wasn't much of a debate (not sure what Tony was trying to do, he had no counter arguments or anything) but Hitchens let it all out as only he can do, and it wouldn't have mattered even if it was a better opponent. My point is he knows he could die but is not scared that he would turn to a fairytale religion, which theophilus is apparently trying to convince you do to.

Hang in there, the TRUTH will set you free!
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18-01-2011, 10:24 PM
 
Heart I believe you're worth more than thinking yourself worthy of Hell
I don't believe in the slogan, The truth shall set you free.
For if it were true, religion could not exist.
Rather, I accept that it is doubt that set's the key into the lock upon a consciousness and as such opens the door unto emancipation.

Speiraz, I am saddened to read you are suffering a terminal prognosis. You have my sympathy and hope that it will all turn around and you shall heal, rather than pass away.

As to your original post. Hell is a lie. It's a fiction born in a fear paradigm that seeks to control the living by implying that control lives on after they are dead.
Hell, damnation, is impossible if one first believes their god is benevolent.

I am a Mortalist. I don't accept I'll carry with me in death the consciousness that I inhabited in life.

There's only now and this life is made for passing through, as just another experience power made possible.

I accept what Physics tells us. That all things are rhythmic energy that constantly moves and changes and as such can never be destroyed, but can only be altered and changed into something else.
To be damned to suffer the horror of a Hell, one must be possessed of the human senses that would afford the suffering to be experienced at every level of awareness.
When you leave your human body behind, you leave the cognizance uniquely possessed by the human consciousness. Hell, in every religion, is described as a place the human emotions react to with horror.Everlasting torment, lakes of fire, thirst unending, etc... It's a visceral response to a contrived fiction, that causes the believer in it to first accept they are worthy of such a place and to secondly imagine how it would feel based on the worst projections the human emotions can conjure.

Don't fear hell. If any place could exist it's right here on earth.

Rather, know that you are a finite example of infinite and powerful forces that manifest and invigorate all that is was or shall ever be anywhere and everywhere present and unseen.

This life is your time. And when your time here is through, you shall never be here again. And the world shall never then, as is the case now, know anyone like you.

After you are gone from here, the alive energy that you are will live on elsewhere. As a star, as a super nova, as a sunbeam breaking through the atmosphere and coloring a rainbow. As your favorite flower, animal or emotion. You are at your source perfect and eternal.

Live this life as if you are the god other faiths dream up. Because you are. You create your life by will, and live it by choice.

Face your death as that manifest power, energy, potential, passing through the experience of the flesh and onward toward eternity as something else.

(((HUGS))) May peace light upon your dreams.
Heart
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