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20-01-2016, 08:03 PM
Hello!
Hey guys, glad to be here.

I'd spent a period of time filing through my mental inventory as I came into the new year. I came to realize a couple of things. One of which is the fact that I can hold unrealistic standards for myself and for others. And so I made a resolution to extend tolerance for myself and for others, including but not limited to who they are, what they believe in, or whether or not they fit the mold which is most appealing to me personally. The world is larger than one man's perception, and I've found that you can't debate or challenge or ostracize anyone into accepting a view. It is a burdensome, difficult, even harrowing thing to live life as though your point of view is the scale and balance in which you judge one's worth, even your own. We are all worthy, none of us to be judged or weighed or counted by another. We are all in different places, on a different journey, trying to figure things out and work through life as best we can.

With all this in mind, I shuffled through some of those old mental files I'd labeled "pending" -- that included my hard right, conservative reactionary realm of thought, and my lifelong investment in the Christian faith. When I had the courage, that damnable heretical courage to begin to view things from outside the box rather than from within it, things began to crumble. Politically, not as much, I'm still more conservative than liberal, but I got myself out of that highly polarized "us vs. them" paradigm that's so popular. And now I am much more open to looking at politics WITHOUT the lens of religion, which changes a lot of things, as you can imagine!

But on the topic of faith, things began to crumble hard. I got in touch with a couple of hard atheist friends and told them there are cracks in my armor, and if there has ever been a time for you to pour it on me and kill what faith is left, I need you to do it now. There were two things said that struck me hard: "I can prove to you that you are more moral than God." I was listening. "Would you ever send me to hell?" I would never send anyone to hell. I can't imagine even Hitler suffering torment eternally on that level, that fate is too cruel for anyone. And then, another friend chimed in and blew my mind on a universal level, and asked me something along the lines of this: "On this little bitty rock we live on, hurling through the universe, why would we itty bitty creatures, on one planet, in one solar system, in a massive universe, have a direct pipeline to God? And why would the creator of all have a vested interest in 2,000 years of Jewish history, and favor Israel over all other creation? It makes no sense." And it didn't. And it doesn't.

I am scared, though. My family is so invested in faith. I've attended devoutly with them, then on to my grandma's house afterwards for a family lunch. Everything is going to change. It's going to break some hearts, my own included. I hope this place comes to help replace the community I'll be missing out on in my old church. And thanks for having me.
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20-01-2016, 08:40 PM
RE: Hello!
Welcome aboard!
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20-01-2016, 08:42 PM
RE: Hello!
Welcome!
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21-01-2016, 01:31 AM
RE: Hello!
Welcome!

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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21-01-2016, 05:08 AM
RE: Hello!
(20-01-2016 08:03 PM)Capn. Irrelevant Wrote:  Hey guys, glad to be here.

I'd spent a period of time filing through my mental inventory as I came into the new year. I came to realize a couple of things. One of which is the fact that I can hold unrealistic standards for myself and for others. And so I made a resolution to extend tolerance for myself and for others, including but not limited to who they are, what they believe in, or whether or not they fit the mold which is most appealing to me personally. The world is larger than one man's perception, and I've found that you can't debate or challenge or ostracize anyone into accepting a view. It is a burdensome, difficult, even harrowing thing to live life as though your point of view is the scale and balance in which you judge one's worth, even your own. We are all worthy, none of us to be judged or weighed or counted by another. We are all in different places, on a different journey, trying to figure things out and work through life as best we can.

With all this in mind, I shuffled through some of those old mental files I'd labeled "pending" -- that included my hard right, conservative reactionary realm of thought, and my lifelong investment in the Christian faith. When I had the courage, that damnable heretical courage to begin to view things from outside the box rather than from within it, things began to crumble. Politically, not as much, I'm still more conservative than liberal, but I got myself out of that highly polarized "us vs. them" paradigm that's so popular. And now I am much more open to looking at politics WITHOUT the lens of religion, which changes a lot of things, as you can imagine!

But on the topic of faith, things began to crumble hard. I got in touch with a couple of hard atheist friends and told them there are cracks in my armor, and if there has ever been a time for you to pour it on me and kill what faith is left, I need you to do it now. There were two things said that struck me hard: "I can prove to you that you are more moral than God." I was listening. "Would you ever send me to hell?" I would never send anyone to hell. I can't imagine even Hitler suffering torment eternally on that level, that fate is too cruel for anyone. And then, another friend chimed in and blew my mind on a universal level, and asked me something along the lines of this: "On this little bitty rock we live on, hurling through the universe, why would we itty bitty creatures, on one planet, in one solar system, in a massive universe, have a direct pipeline to God? And why would the creator of all have a vested interest in 2,000 years of Jewish history, and favor Israel over all other creation? It makes no sense." And it didn't. And it doesn't.

I am scared, though. My family is so invested in faith. I've attended devoutly with them, then on to my grandma's house afterwards for a family lunch. Everything is going to change. It's going to break some hearts, my own included. I hope this place comes to help replace the community I'll be missing out on in my old church. And thanks for having me.


Both China and little Korea have 5000 year old written histories.

Kind of kicks the shit out of the west.

Welcome to TTA forum.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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21-01-2016, 05:36 AM
RE: Hello!
Leaving a family or societal social norm happens all over the world, and people leave one religion for another or leave it altogether. The reaction to the upset in social order is evolutionary. Humans evolved to seek patterns, and when they think that pattern works, even if it is simply all in their heads, they will defend that position and pass it down to the next generation. If that social order is upset, the family, group, society, nation will seek to defend it. This group survival is in evolution, and we see other life that lives in groups react the same way.

Unfortunately religion allows humans to ignore our biological reality and real psychology as to why we behave the way we do. Our species did not have the modern understanding of science when the first oral religions were organized much less the first written ones. Our species created religion and god belief out of ignorance(no I don't mean idiot or moron) I mean we simply didn't know any better.

Our species while evolving with the ability to make discoveries, unfortunately did not have our modern scientific method to test and falsify our perceptions, so we gap filled with our own reflections of ourselves, our human qualities on non human ideas(gods). The word for that is "anthropomorphism".

This really stems from flawed perceptions. The antelope on the African plane does not always have time to stop and asses if the swaying grass is mere wind, or a lion stalking it. And it really is no different than convincing a kid that the covered bowl of olives in the dark kitchen at a Halloween party is a bowl of eyeballs. Get humans young enough, which is what most humans do, sell them an idea when they are too young to have good critical thinking skills, it is easy to get them to believe anything.

Yes this was a bit long. But the point is to say you are not alone. Leaving a social order does have a reaction to that. Some are more lucky than others and have more liberal family. Others have deeply religious family and will unfortunately suffer a backlash to to that leaving. I myself was lucky enough to have a liberal mom. But my biological younger sister when she announced it got a severe verbal backlash from our family, lucky she was an adult not living at home at the time, but still.

You'll have lots of support here. Now while nobody should tell you what to do with your family, because only you can determine your comfort level. You also don't have to be a doormat. I'd say whatever you do, if your interest is to stay in contact with them, tell them you are the same person, tell them you still love them, and show them with action. You don't have to have a religious debate every time you see them. But you also don't have to let anyone suck the emotional life out of you either.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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21-01-2016, 07:07 AM
RE: Hello!
Welcome. The saying, "nothing worthwhile comes easy" will be your mantra for a while. Seek out like minded people for support, like here and maybe some secular groups local to you.

That being said, people who really love will still really love you. I have two very best friends whom are more family to me than any except my kids and grandkids and they are both hardcore believers. They love and support me and I them. We just don't make faith an issue within our relationship.

Glad you found us, this place if full of good supportive people. Hope you find peace in your new path to reason.

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21-01-2016, 07:23 AM
RE: Hello!
Welcome to TTA. I hope your family will be kinder than you fear.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-01-2016, 07:38 AM
RE: Hello!
Hello! Big Grin
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21-01-2016, 08:11 AM
RE: Hello!
Welcome. You will enjoy this place.

DJ

Live Better...Help Often....Wonder More
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