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07-01-2014, 01:28 PM
RE: Hello All
(07-01-2014 12:23 PM)Sovby Wrote:  I looked this up on wikipedia. It really doesn't matter what i call myself but agnostic atheism describes me pretty well. So its possible i'm both an agnostic & an atheist. There seems to be alot of different definitions of atheism & agnosticism so i may change my mind about it but i'm pretty sure i'm not being a pussy about it.

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is the absence of belief that any deities exist.

Agnosticism is the belief that the truth values of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, as well as other religious and metaphysical claims—are unknown. Agnosticism sometimes indicates doubt or a skeptical approach to questions. In the popular sense, an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of a deity or deities, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively.

Agnostic atheism, also called atheistic agnosticism, is a philosophical position that encompasses both atheism and agnosticism. Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity and agnostic because they claim that the existence of a deity is either unknowable in principle or currently unknown in fact.
Sovby, there is somebody on here called "Brownshirt" that could use your capacity to learn. Thumbsup

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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07-01-2014, 01:36 PM
RE: Hello All
Also, ignore Muffs. Insulting people for him is like breathing for the rest of us. You'll get used to it. Really, it's part of his charm. Thumbsup

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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07-01-2014, 01:37 PM (This post was last modified: 07-01-2014 01:45 PM by Adrianime.)
RE: Hello All
And Sovby, to answer your earlier question that you asked me, it is the difference between, "believe in not" versus "not believe in".

The gumball example is popular so I'll just pull it out.
-Gumball machine full of gumballs exists.
-Somebody says, "I think the number of gumballs in there is even. Do you as well?"
--saying "no, I don't have any reason to think it is even" here is showing a lack of belief in their claim. That is "not believing in" their claim.
--saying "no, I think it is odd" here is showing a belief in an opposing view to their claim. That is "believing in *not*" their claim.

(I don't particularly like this example, because the chance of the number of gumballs being even is like 100000X more likely than the chance that even one deity exists IMO, but hopefully it illustrates a point.)

Most atheists are just saying "no, I don't have any reason to believe that theistic claims are true."
This is different from saying "no, there is no god."

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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07-01-2014, 01:49 PM
RE: Hello All
This is not that complicated.

Agnosticism covers knowledge. Atheism covers belief.

Agnostics are not sure whether there is a God.

An atheist believes there is no God.

These are not contradictory opinions. Most atheists are agnostic. They do not KNOW there is no God, but they BELIEVE based on the evidence (and the lack of evidence) that there is no God.

It's like my wife's fidelity. I have no reason to think she is being unfaithful to me. There is no evidence that she is being unfaithful to me. I believe she is being faithful to me. Is it possible that somewhere out there, there is evidence that would lead me to believe otherwise? Sure, it's possible. I would have to be with her all the time to KNOW for sure. But I believe what I believe based on the evidence I have. If someone wants me to believe my wife is being unfaithful to me, that person would be required to provide evidence.

Agnostics do not know whether there is a God. Atheists believe there is no God. Is it possible there's evidence somewhere out there that would constitute proof of God's existence? Of course there is. Atheists are open to that possibility. But not without proof! If you want to assert that there is a God, you would be required to provide evidence.

I am agnostic. I am also atheist. There is no conflict between those positions.

By saying you're agnostic, you are saying you reject every God you know about. If you're honest with yourself, you will have to admit you're an atheist. I submit you're afraid to do that because you think it makes you closed-minded. But you're wrong about that. You don't believe in Yahweh, you don't believe in Allah, you don't believe in Zeus, you don't believe in Thor, etc, etc, etc. You don't believe in God. You're an atheist. Welcome to the club.

Now, if you're saying you don't know whether Yahweh exists, I could point you to a host of reasons to reach the conclusion that he's a myth. I do not believe in Yahweh for some pretty darned good reasons. I am not agnostic about him. He doesn't exist. But some other God? I have no evidence to weigh. I do not believe there is one. But do I KNOW? Of course not. The only thing I know is that I'm an atheist. By the way, so are you.
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07-01-2014, 01:51 PM
RE: Hello All
(07-01-2014 12:23 PM)Sovby Wrote:  I looked this up on wikipedia. It really doesn't matter what i call myself but agnostic atheism describes me pretty well. So its possible i'm both an agnostic & an atheist. There seems to be alot of different definitions of atheism & agnosticism so i may change my mind about it but i'm pretty sure i'm not being a pussy about it.

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is the absence of belief that any deities exist.

Agnosticism is the belief that the truth values of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, as well as other religious and metaphysical claims—are unknown. Agnosticism sometimes indicates doubt or a skeptical approach to questions. In the popular sense, an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of a deity or deities, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively.

Agnostic atheism, also called atheistic agnosticism, is a philosophical position that encompasses both atheism and agnosticism. Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity and agnostic because they claim that the existence of a deity is either unknowable in principle or currently unknown in fact.

Now you're getting it!

Onward, my faithful steed!
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07-01-2014, 01:51 PM
RE: Hello All
(07-01-2014 12:23 PM)Sovby Wrote:  I looked this up on wikipedia. It really doesn't matter what i call myself but agnostic atheism describes me pretty well. So its possible i'm both an agnostic & an atheist. There seems to be alot of different definitions of atheism & agnosticism so i may change my mind about it but i'm pretty sure i'm not being a pussy about it.

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is the absence of belief that any deities exist.

Agnosticism is the belief that the truth values of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, as well as other religious and metaphysical claims—are unknown. Agnosticism sometimes indicates doubt or a skeptical approach to questions. In the popular sense, an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of a deity or deities, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively.

Agnostic atheism, also called atheistic agnosticism, is a philosophical position that encompasses both atheism and agnosticism. Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity and agnostic because they claim that the existence of a deity is either unknowable in principle or currently unknown in fact.

Yes, well done. Intellectual honesty requires me to acknowledge that I am an agnostic atheist as I cannot prove that no gods exist.
However, I am also of the opinion that there is no evidence of the existence of any gods and a great deal of evidence that no gods exist.

I do think, however, that there is sufficient evidence to conclude that no benevolent god exists.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-01-2014, 02:07 PM
RE: Hello All
I keep it simple. I just don't believe shit. Tongue

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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07-01-2014, 02:48 PM
RE: Hello All
Thanks everyone. This helps alot. I do enjoy the podcast & the videos. Im glad i found this little spot.
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07-01-2014, 04:51 PM
RE: Hello All
Wtf happened to no confrontations in the intro forum?

I don't really like going outside.
It's too damn "peopley" out there....
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07-01-2014, 05:32 PM
RE: Hello All
(07-01-2014 12:23 PM)Sovby Wrote:  I looked this up on wikipedia. It really doesn't matter what i call myself but agnostic atheism describes me pretty well. So its possible i'm both an agnostic & an atheist.

That's why I told you that you were an atheist. Smile

Check out my atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
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