Hello Atheists of Thought
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19-12-2011, 04:29 AM
RE: Hello Atheists of Thought
(19-12-2011 04:05 AM)Egor Wrote:  I believe animals have souls, but essentially atheism asserts that humans don’t have souls. If atheism is true, we are simply biological mechanism being pushed around by the contingencies of a chaotic universe.

Hi Egor,
I wonder if you would give us your support for why you believe animals have souls?

Since you believe in evolution, when did the soul get created, and how did it get inserted into creation? Since evolution includes plants, do plants have souls as well?

The same question goes for original sin. If evolution is true, was there a "First Adam" that brought sin into the world as Paul suggests?

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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19-12-2011, 04:30 AM
RE: Hello Atheists of Thought
(19-12-2011 04:05 AM)Egor Wrote:  
Quote:1. Why do you think atheism drags humans down to the level of animals?
Well, actually it aims for something even lower, because I believe animals have souls, but essentially atheism asserts that humans don’t have souls. If atheism is true, we are simply biological mechanism being pushed around by the contingencies of a chaotic universe.
OK. So you don't *like* this, but truth does not depend on liking something, do we agree? Question 2: Do cockroaches have souls? Mice? Dogs? Cows? Bacteria? Do they go to heaven? Is there maybe a cockroach heaven?

Quote: Jesus doesn’t talk about [being gay] (even though it was common in Rome, and even though he talked about many other sins). So, if he doesn’t give a damn about it, I sure don’t.
Screwy reason for being tolerant, but at least you're tolerant Smile

Quote:If you read the Gospels you will see that Jesus Christ doesn’t fit in Christianity any more than you do. I’m not damning the Church, for it is the only institution where people who at least try to follow Jesus Christ come together. But believe me, I feel your pain.
I have read the gospels. Jesus seems to fit in with Christianity - I thought that's why they named it after him? Is the rest of the Bible garbage?

Quote:[Atheism] disgusts me, and if a person remains an atheist until they die, and then they die an atheist and enter eternity that way, they will then be forever separated from God. They will be in hell. I would like to prevent that for as many people as possible. So, yes, I’m all fired up with the joy of the Lord. Big Grin
Thank you for caring. I don't Wink If God is as he is depicted in the Bible then he's a worthless asshole anyway. If holding that opinion means I'll fry, well, screw him. But frankly it's so improbable that this is the case (in my estimation anyway) that I'm not worried.
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19-12-2011, 04:31 AM
RE: Hello Atheists of Thought
(19-12-2011 03:02 AM)Egor Wrote:  Now, I wonder what kind of theist is the kind that atheists call the “good kind.”

The kind that burp and fart and eat babies, like atheists do.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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19-12-2011, 04:32 AM
RE: Hello Atheists of Thought
(19-12-2011 04:31 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(19-12-2011 03:02 AM)Egor Wrote:  Now, I wonder what kind of theist is the kind that atheists call the “good kind.”

The kind that burp and fart and eat babies, like atheists do.

Pass the salt of the earth please...

Burp Big Grin
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19-12-2011, 04:52 AM
RE: Hello Atheists of Thought
Hello there, welcome to the great debate!
I'm a newbie here as well, look forward to hearing your thoughts/beliefs.
Take care

(17-12-2011 05:03 AM)Egor Wrote:  Hello,

My name is Edward, and I just found this forum from a Google search. I'm a Christian. Maybe you can change that; no one has yet.

I look forward to some insightful and interesting conversations with the good people of this forum. Confused

Ed
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19-12-2011, 05:34 AM
 
RE: Hello Atheists of Thought
(19-12-2011 04:18 AM)Malleus Wrote:  It makes sense, but please educate me on a few topics.

1. If the Old Testament is disposable, what was all that killing and sacrificing about? I mean Jesus. If you don't literally believe that a man and a woman sitting in a tree ate a fruit and that was simply too much for god to take, then why did Jesus have to come?

I didn’t say anything about that. I said the Old Testament is a historical reference to help us understand the Gospels, that’s it. I never said they were disposable. I just don’t defend them as inerrant like I do the Gospels. And I really don’t need Adam or Eve’s sin. I have my own I need Jesus Christ for—just like you do.


Quote:2. How did you decide that *all* four (or more) gospels are reliable sources of information? Why not just one or two? Or why not include Isaiah as ""the Old Testament Evangelist" for example? I'm just trying to figure out your criteria.

Divine revelation. What else can I say? I know God’s Word when I read it. And I am a Christian, not a Jew. And I’m non-denominational, so I don’t follow what the mainstream Protestant Chruches believe about that Bible. Nor am I pushing my brand of Christianity. For all I know, God intended it for me alone. I am not here to teach you Christianity. I’m here to provide evidence God exists. You’re an athiest. You don’t need the Bible until you first believe there’s a God who inspired it.

Quote:I mean, the gospels are commentaries made by early christians on the life of Jesus not earlier that 30 years after everything supposedly happened.

But they are miraculous in nature. They shouldn’t even exist. There’s no motivation for the Church to have kept them or not changed them to suit their needs. But that’s a topic for another discussion. All I’m saying is they could have been written a hundred years after and it wouldn’t matter.

Quote: And if you study what christian scholars found out about the gospels, they are anonymous writings based on hear-say as none of the authors witnessed the events. Mathew, Mark, Luke and John are simply conventional names for the books and not the real names of the authors who are, as I said, unknown

I’m fully aware of that. Even that fact that they are anonymous makes them even more miraculous. You are correct that the names of the authors are simply ascribed to them by the Early Church.

(19-12-2011 04:29 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Hi Egor,
I wonder if you would give us your support for why you believe animals have souls?

Because they act and seem to feel just like we do, especially when we are children, and they are conscious, so…I assume they have a soul the same as we do.

Quote:Since you believe in evolution, when did the soul get created, and how did it get inserted into creation? Since evolution includes plants, do plants have souls as well?

Plants don’t seem to have any consciousness or will, so I can’t say anything about them. Our souls are created by God outside of the physical universe, so there is no “time” per se when they were created and inserted. Obviously a soul uses a body and brain and they would come together when a child is conceived, I would imagine. Although, I would guess that the actuall time a soul is connected to a body would be indeterminant. Keep in mind when you talk about souls you’re talking about an entity that is eternal matching up with a physical body that is temporal.

Quote:The same question goes for original sin. If evolution is true, was there a "First Adam" that brought sin into the world as Paul suggests?

There must have been what we would call an “Adam” or what I think of as the first modern human male, and there probably was a time when he first realized his free will actions separated him from God. But as for original sin, who cares? I have my sins; I didn’t need Adam’s.

As for Paul. I respect his opinions a great deal. I give them the consideration they are due, but I am a Christian as well, and I have the Gospels in front of me. It is my responsibility to work out what they mean. I have no inclination, nor do I have the right to follow another man’s religion. God demands we each come to know him on our own through Jesus Christ in spirit and in truth.

Isn’t this great! We’re all getting to know each other so warmly. I only wish we had cups of tea. Dodgy

(19-12-2011 04:31 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  The kind that burp and fart and eat babies, like atheists do.

Exactly my point.Confused
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19-12-2011, 06:24 AM (This post was last modified: 19-12-2011 06:35 AM by Malleus.)
RE: Hello Atheists of Thought
(19-12-2011 05:34 AM)Egor Wrote:  I didn’t say anything about that. I said the Old Testament is a historical reference to help us understand the Gospels, that’s it. I never said they were disposable. I just don’t defend them as inerrant like I do the Gospels. And I really don’t need Adam or Eve’s sin. I have my own I need Jesus Christ for—just like you do.

Easy there, big fella. Please remind me, what exactly did Jesus come to forgive if there is no original sin? And also, where did all that evil come from without the original sin?

Quote:Divine revelation. What else can I say? I know God’s Word when I read it.

Now we're talking. I can't wait to hear more from you. But you *do* realize that without having my own "divine revelation", I won't believe a word you're saying about it. You didn't take another guy's revelation for granted, so don't expect me to. You had your own. Tell god to gimme some of that sugar too

Quote: I’m here to provide evidence God exists.

Wohoo!!! Where were you when I was praying for an answer? By all means do so, we're listening.

Quote:But they are miraculous in nature. They shouldn’t even exist. There’s no motivation for the Church to have kept them or not changed them to suit their needs.

I'm glad you say that because I wanted to help you discover other gods with equally miraculous stories (if not more so). I know you heard about the classics , so i won't spend too much time with the Greco-Roman divinities even if they have cool (and older) scriptures, but you can't get anywhere without the Egyptians: Horus, is really nice. Goes well with a fine Chianti.

If that's not your thing, you should know that all the cool kids worship Mithra these days. Cool-cool story, it has a nice twist too, but I won't spoil the ending.

If you wish for something more introspective, I suggest Vishnu and Shiva, but being caste-less might be a problem for you.

If you want to sound like a fine connaisseur, you could look people dead in the eye and tell them about Quetzalcoatl and Tezcatlipoca. People will remember you if you talk that way.

Exotic? We've got 'em! Zalmoxis is your guy. What are the odds of *ever* running into another zalmoxian to steal your stories?

They all have *really* miraculous stories. Who would ever be motivated to come up with that shit? It's not like they get to dance around with a chicken and become very rich and powerful in the process, right? Oh...

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

I would never shake a baby unless the recipe requires it.
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19-12-2011, 06:31 AM
RE: Hello Atheists of Thought
(19-12-2011 05:34 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(19-12-2011 04:31 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  The kind that burp and fart and eat babies, like atheists do.

Exactly my point.Confused

You don't like baby? Jeez I never will understand you vegetarians. You can get tofu baby but it's just not the same.
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19-12-2011, 10:04 AM
RE: Hello Atheists of Thought
Hmmm, it seems our theology is somewhat parallel.

Few questions:

1) Do you believe in an inerrant Bible?
2) Whose belief on free will do you adhere to? Augustine and Pelagius?

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19-12-2011, 01:04 PM (This post was last modified: 19-12-2011 02:18 PM by ddrew.)
RE: Hello Atheists of Thought
(19-12-2011 05:34 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(19-12-2011 04:18 AM)Malleus Wrote:  2. How did you decide that *all* four (or more) gospels are reliable sources of information? Why not just one or two? Or why not include Isaiah as ""the Old Testament Evangelist" for example? I'm just trying to figure out your criteria.

Divine revelation. What else can I say? I know God’s Word when I read it. And I am a Christian, not a Jew. And I’m non-denominational, so I don’t follow what the mainstream Protestant Chruches believe about that Bible. Nor am I pushing my brand of Christianity. For all I know, God intended it for me alone. I am not here to teach you Christianity. I’m here to provide evidence God exists. You’re an athiest. You don’t need the Bible until you first believe there’s a God who inspired it.

I know God's Word when I read it. - So basically you decided that the 4 books proven to contain the most contradictory scripture in all the bible is your rationalization that it's gotta be God's Word. Well okay It makes sense I guess... God took on a human hippie male figure .. smoked alot of weed and then inspired others to write about the whole thing in 4 different accounts. Awsome.

For all I know, God intended it for me alone. - Your arrogant, selfish and delusional. Your nothing... accept that truth and maybe you'll free yourself of the brainwashing you've endured.

I’m here to provide evidence God exists. You’re an athiest. - You spelled atheist wrong. You have no tangible evidence for the existance of a God. This evidence is somthing you cannot provide so your at a dead end on this evidence of God stuff.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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