Hello Atheists
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31-07-2012, 01:58 PM
RE: Hello Atheists
(31-07-2012 01:15 PM)Red Celt Wrote:  
(31-07-2012 12:59 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  You openly criticized me, questioned my intentions, and made fun of me without any prior agitation from me. Your criticisms were unwarranted, yet you felt compelled to share them.

Two points, really:-

1. Quote me doing each of those things.
2. I already explained my background in dealing with Christians in an atheist venue.

And don't call me a hypocrite. I have many flaws, but hypocrisy isn't one of them.

#1
Questioning my intentions / criticizing
When someone does something, they always have a motive for their actions. I'm curious to know what KC's motives are... and how he justifies such an active role in an atheist forum to his church friends.

Making fun of me
He's made 3795 posts, so far (3705 of which seem to be photos of his wife).

#2
How does that justify carrying the angst over here? From what you just said, it seems you are openly prejudice and judgmental and practice the very definition of stereotyping.

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31-07-2012, 02:03 PM
RE: Hello Atheists
(31-07-2012 01:53 PM)Red Celt Wrote:  
(31-07-2012 01:45 PM)morondog Wrote:  Of course I think the point of this thread derail is that you very definitely don't wanna talk to them Tongue

Honestly, it isn't that. When someone introduces them self by saying that atheism is a religion... and that being an atheist is silly and pointless... my expectations for a reasoned discussion go out the window. I've spoken to lots of Christians that I've got on fine with... Christians who didn't start the conversation by (badly) prejudging me (and those like me).

Holy put words in her mouth Batman!

She never called it silly. She asked why it was in existence because she didn't understand. She was seeking to cure her ignorance of a preconceived notion she had.

Seriously, what is wrong with you?

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31-07-2012, 02:10 PM
RE: Hello Atheists
(31-07-2012 01:30 PM)Red Celt Wrote:  I am in awe at your mind-reading powers ...

Red Celt Wrote:  Lilith...It might have been worded politely, but the intent sure as hell wasn't.

Dang.
My cognitive dissonance meter just went *kerbloink*. Good thing Home Depot is open.

Somewhere in Florida, there is a group of high-fiving Xtians, goin' :
"Hey, let's drop by, and post something polite, and watch 'em rip each other apart".

Welcome, TOCH. How old is your baby ? Do you have a little boy or a little girl ? Care to share her/his name ?
Are you in a denominational church, or non ? What do you and your hubby like to do in the community ?

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Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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31-07-2012, 02:14 PM
RE: Hello Atheists
Hello! And welcome to this forum. I see you have one post so I am not sure you'll stick around, but I really hope you do. I have a husband and young children, too. I live in western Canada. After seeing a wee bit of a mess in this thread, unfortunately it's probably hard to see from this, but a lot of people here are good friends and have a wonderful sense of community and support. Like some churches, and like human nature, an ugly side brews sometimes. Of course, this can also be considered healthy discussion Wink Many here believe that butting heads can bring out real conclusions.

(30-07-2012 09:18 PM)The Only Christian Here Wrote:  As I have clearly stated by my choice of username I am a Christian. I live in Celebration Florida with my husband and baby boy. We attend a church here in town and serve in our community. You're probably wondering what I'm doing on an Atheist website. First of all I'm not here because I'm trying to convert people. I assume everyone here is as firm in their beliefs as I am. I just have a couple questions. First of all, why does Atheism even exist?

Like already said, there are a few other christians and other diety believers here on this forum who are regular and kindred members.

Atheism exists because there is not a clear evidence for anything else, and many see this as the truth. I can tell you why religion exists and the history of it according to social standards and beginnings of many cultures and groups of people.

The only explanation I can give you, being atheist, is that the truth is so much more obvious now that we have become a species who can test our surroundings in a way that proves the reality we live in.



(30-07-2012 09:18 PM)The Only Christian Here Wrote:  It seems like the absence of a belief in God would mean absence of religion and Atheism appears to be a religion, correct me if I'm wrong.

Atheism is not a religion. It is a title to call a group of people who are like-minded. Just like artists, musicians, trekkies and parents are not a religion. When someone says they are atheist, it simply means they don't recognize a deity or god to exist. Nothing more. They can disagree on thousands of other things that is seemingly related to what you assumed a religion- science, how to educate and what political party to belong to, atheists have different ununified stance on all these things and everything else EXCEPT about the lack of proof for a super-being.

(30-07-2012 09:18 PM)The Only Christian Here Wrote:  Also, why do Atheists feel the need to disprove the existence of God?

We don't feel the need to disprove it. We illustrate how it has NOT been proved. For example, someone reveals a miracle. An atheist discovers or looks for a hole in the said miracle. They are not seeking to disprove it, they are only looking to see if there is another explanation. So far, there has never been a satisfying proof for a god or supernatural force.

An atheist ask the theist to show the undeniable proof, an atheist wants to know the truth and reality of life.


(30-07-2012 09:18 PM)The Only Christian Here Wrote:  Since you don't believe in God why not just put the thought out of your mind, why spend time and energy thinking of ways to prove He doesn't exist?

In my life I have seen people beaten, their rights taken away, discriminated, mutilated, mind controlled and hated all in the name of religion. It's hard to sit by and watch and accept.

It's important to try to show others that what they follow is based on an old way of thinking and there are more healthy and moral solutions to the way we live as a human body.

You may assume that I can just ignore my grandma's prayer before dinner and be on with my life. If it were that simple, I probably would. But when she beats the gay out of her son after supper is over, that's a tough pill to swallow. (not my actual circumstance, but wanted to show a common picture that is happening world wide, still)


(30-07-2012 09:18 PM)The Only Christian Here Wrote:  I ask these questions with innocent intentions. I'm comfortable with people asking me about my beliefs and hope you feel the same way. I'm only curious and not looking for a fight.


Curiosity is a brilliant thing. I think it's noble to look for the truth, no matter how hard of a path that is to discover. Thank you for coming here and asking people directly, finding the source of something will often show a greater reality than what a rumour may be.


And now. Offtopic Warning. lol.


In response to the kufuffle and going-ons in here.

RedCelt. I have noticed many posts since you got here, and I really admire the things you have to say. You are quick and smart and have enlightened me a number of times. Thank you.

It is also my opinion in this particular thread that you have been abrasive. I am wondering, and well it seems you have also mentioned, how much of a personal emotional background it seems your responses are coming from. Some assumptions you have seem unwarranted.

I think it's important to be tolerant of all walks of life and to respond in a way that gets them to understand instead of just a defensive stance. For example, swearing has it's own topic here somewhere, but it's important to know different cultures customs not because all should follow them, but more to ease into the bigger topics at hand. I think a warmth and welcoming attitude for here in particular is what helps nurture conversation and debate. If you thought that the OP was not being honest, why not just simply ask and address your concerns? Slinging defensive assumptions breeds ignorance, from my experience.


As far as KC and his involvement here, like he mentioned he came here through another member of the TTA community germanyT, who frankly has left an open book about both their lives (whether KC wanted it to be that open or not, I'm not sure, but he seemed to roll with it). So, I think this fast-tracked KC's trust in the community.

Even if KC had a secret hidden agenda here, he has the same forum team membership as me. He doesn't have any control behind the scene as far as being tech related. He gets a (an important) voice on the panel and extra rep privileges to dole out to other members. That's all. So really, nothing to be paranoid or worried about.

Like any forum or community, no matter how big or small, unified , or diverse, we can only take it one step at a time and I think it's going pretty well here. Smile
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31-07-2012, 02:33 PM
RE: Hello Atheists
(31-07-2012 01:53 PM)Red Celt Wrote:  
(31-07-2012 01:45 PM)morondog Wrote:  Of course I think the point of this thread derail is that you very definitely don't wanna talk to them Tongue

Honestly, it isn't that. When someone introduces them self by saying that atheism is a religion... and that being an atheist is silly and pointless... my expectations for a reasoned discussion go out the window. I've spoken to lots of Christians that I've got on fine with... Christians who didn't start the conversation by (badly) prejudging me (and those like me).

Ah... you see... hanging out together as a forum we have a more or less uniform approach these days. I guess going back to the fact that any small internet pond eventually becomes rather incestuous.

One of the things we tend to do is let people dig a bit of a hole for themselves over the course of a few posts *first* and then jump all over them if they turn out to be trolls. We regard this as proper etiquette Tongue And you were in breach of that unwritten rule. Hence you got jumped on. Not to dissect it too much further but that's my suggested explanation.

You see, many Christians are told this exact concoction of weirdness which sounds unreasonable to you, but she did ask what our take was on those claims... so we can kinda get where her OP was coming from, it's the kind of OP some of us might have written in the not so distant past Tongue

PS: I wrote this over the course of the last half hour but it still seems sorta relevant. I repeat my suggestion that we should all smoke a bong and sing Kumbaya. Seems to be the most logical thing right now. Normally I'm not a bong person but by God I feel like one now.
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31-07-2012, 02:34 PM
RE: Hello Atheists
(31-07-2012 09:09 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(31-07-2012 09:03 AM)Red Celt Wrote:  You're linking a thread that you started in order to justify the need for such threads? Circular logic, much? Dodgy

No.

Besides the picture thread, the intro thread, and a game thread, it is the longest running and largest thread on the forum. It is 4X larger than the nearest thread that is associated with atheism and theism.

Also, the Atheism and Theism forum is by far the largest and most popular forum with threads that have hundreds of replies.

Your claim does not back the forum's data.
You are not a regular theist though.

People are interested in your " No Free-Will, Calvinist" Theology.

Its shouldn't be, ask a theist. It should be ask KC. Your belief system is not the standard of a theists.

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31-07-2012, 03:02 PM
RE: Hello Atheists
(31-07-2012 02:33 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(31-07-2012 01:53 PM)Red Celt Wrote:  Honestly, it isn't that. When someone introduces them self by saying that atheism is a religion... and that being an atheist is silly and pointless... my expectations for a reasoned discussion go out the window. I've spoken to lots of Christians that I've got on fine with... Christians who didn't start the conversation by (badly) prejudging me (and those like me).

Ah... you see... hanging out together as a forum we have a more or less uniform approach these days. I guess going back to the fact that any small internet pond eventually becomes rather incestuous.

One of the things we tend to do is let people dig a bit of a hole for themselves over the course of a few posts *first* and then jump all over them if they turn out to be trolls. We regard this as proper etiquette Tongue And you were in breach of that unwritten rule. Hence you got jumped on. Not to dissect it too much further but that's my suggested explanation.

You see, many Christians are told this exact concoction of weirdness which sounds unreasonable to you, but she did ask what our take was on those claims... so we can kinda get where her OP was coming from, it's the kind of OP some of us might have written in the not so distant past Tongue

PS: I wrote this over the course of the last half hour but it still seems sorta relevant. I repeat my suggestion that we should all smoke a bong and sing Kumbaya. Seems to be the most logical thing right now. Normally I'm not a bong person but by God I feel like one now.

This exactly. The sorts of questions she asked are the exact lines that are taught to so many Christians. So reasonable and not overly-aggressive responses is the best way to proceed, in my opinion. Until you can confirm that they're a troll or uninterested in actual discussion, approach them as though they are willing to have a conversation.

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31-07-2012, 03:08 PM
RE: Hello Atheists
(31-07-2012 01:58 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Questioning my intentions / criticizing
When someone does something, they always have a motive for their actions. I'm curious to know what KC's motives are... and how he justifies such an active role in an atheist forum to his church friends.

Seriously? Just how thin is your skin?

I've been online since 1996 and I can say (with the greatest of confidence) that I've never told a single lie in all that time. I speak my mind and I'm honest with it. I said everyone has a motive for their actions... and they do. I then said that I was curious to know what your motives were. If you took an honest query and turned that into something negative, that is aaaallll your problem.

(31-07-2012 01:58 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Making fun of me
He's made 3795 posts, so far (3705 of which seem to be photos of his wife).

Now, really... ask Santa Claus for a sense of humour next Xmas. You are either ridiculously sensitive, or you're deliberately looking for an argument. Hush now.

(31-07-2012 01:58 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  How does that justify carrying the angst over here? From what you just said, it seems you are openly prejudice and judgmental and practice the very definition of stereotyping.

I gave my background and explained my reasoning for being curious about you. I have good grounds to be suspicious precisely because of my background. You eventually answered my query. I won't query you again (on that matter). Communication works well in both directions, not just one.

And then you went on to call me a hypocrite... the gun-loving Christian calling someone a hypocrite... Yeah. OK.
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31-07-2012, 03:12 PM
RE: Hello Atheists
(31-07-2012 03:08 PM)Red Celt Wrote:  
(31-07-2012 01:58 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Questioning my intentions / criticizing
When someone does something, they always have a motive for their actions. I'm curious to know what KC's motives are... and how he justifies such an active role in an atheist forum to his church friends.

Seriously? Just how thin is your skin?

I've been online since 1996 and I can say (with the greatest of confidence) that I've never told a single lie in all that time. I speak my mind and I'm honest with it. I said everyone has a motive for their actions... and they do. I then said that I was curious to know what your motives were. If you took an honest query and turned that into something negative, that is aaaallll your problem.

(31-07-2012 01:58 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Making fun of me
He's made 3795 posts, so far (3705 of which seem to be photos of his wife).

Now, really... ask Santa Claus for a sense of humour next Xmas. You are either ridiculously sensitive, or you're deliberately looking for an argument. Hush now.

(31-07-2012 01:58 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  How does that justify carrying the angst over here? From what you just said, it seems you are openly prejudice and judgmental and practice the very definition of stereotyping.

I gave my background and explained my reasoning for being curious about you. I have good grounds to be suspicious precisely because of my background. You eventually answered my query. I won't query you again (on that matter). Communication works well in both directions, not just one.

And then you went on to call me a hypocrite... the gun-loving Christian calling someone a hypocrite... Yeah. OK.

I don't know man, you're the one coming off extra sensitive in this thread. At least in my opinion.

Maybe it's time to dial it back a bit and try to get back on topic, or abandon the thread altogether.

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31-07-2012, 03:16 PM
RE: Hello Atheists
(31-07-2012 12:59 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(31-07-2012 12:40 PM)Red Celt Wrote:  The criticism is unwarranted. I'm defending myself. Don't like to see me defend myself? Don't offer ridiculous claims about me.

Maybe you should read your own words and consider them.

You openly criticized me, questioned my intentions, and made fun of me without any prior agitation from me. Your criticisms were unwarranted, yet you felt compelled to share them.

Contrary to me, the criticisms of you do have warrant, but you feel as if you should be immune to them.

It's just strangely hypocritical and ironic.
I don't think he was being mean to you( as far as I read into it. I might be wrong), so much as he was showing hostility to your ideas and theology.

I personally respect you as a person, but I would not, and can't overlook the theology you carry, and defend. The sheer cruelity of a God like yours is something I have a hard time believing you believe it.

I just can't understand why such a ( as far as I know you) good, moral person, would hold such repugnant, disgusting, and absolutely unjustified theological ideas of your God, and his workings and will.

I will never berate you as a person, but I will never ignore your beliefs.

If you see me attack your beliefs, its nothing against you ( as a person), just against your ideas.

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