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31-07-2012, 11:07 AM
RE: Hello Atheists
(31-07-2012 10:58 AM)Red Celt Wrote:  
(31-07-2012 10:06 AM)Red Celt Wrote:  After a while, they'd either give up... or they'd stay and steadily lose their sanity. There were a few long-term Christians who were very borderline, when it came to their mental faculties.

A quick Google provided this list (alt.atheism Guide to Current Kooks) and there are some real beauties in there (whose names I can still remember).

John P Boatwright's mental train was derailed long ago. He was a bible literalist who went out of his way to prove that the bible didn't contain any errors. His argument about the incorrect value for pi was one of my favourites: Proof PI is Not Given as 3.0 in the Bible.

Hmmm? Thread hi-jacking? Oh, sorry, OP.

That's some funny stuff right there Smile Thanks.
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31-07-2012, 11:07 AM
RE: Hello Atheists
(31-07-2012 10:55 AM)morondog Wrote:  ... I superglued a dog's butt to my webcam...


Oh! That explains it. We just thought you had grown a beard

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31-07-2012, 11:17 AM
RE: Hello Atheists
(31-07-2012 10:06 AM)Red Celt Wrote:  
(31-07-2012 09:30 AM)morondog Wrote:  Anyway you missed me again Tongue What I meant, and should perhaps have explained in more detail, is that attitudes towards atheists will only change if we talk to people. It's about them understanding our common humanity. Not necessarily our beliefs.

OK, yes. I get where you're coming from.

Allow me to explain my reservations... the background of which I've already commented upon elsewhere, so excuse me if I'm repeating myself.

My first home on the internet was alt.atheism. I spent a long time there, and became very aware of the patterns that would develop - especially when Christians would come along. And there were a steady stream of them. Which is (in part) why I'm resentful about an atheistic forum suffering a similar fate.

But anyway. When a new Christian came along, their primary purpose was to proselytise (even if their introductory statement said that they wouldn't). After a while, they'd either give up... or they'd stay and steadily lose their sanity. There were a few long-term Christians who were very borderline, when it came to their mental faculties.

KC doesn't fit that pattern. So, he's a new thing (to me) and I'm curious. Whenever anyone does anything, it is done for a reason. There is a motivational background to all of our actions. What is it for KC? And how does he integrate such a heavy involvement here with his life in church? How does he explain that involvement to his church? Are they happy about it?

Why does anyone go along to a place containing people who have the opposite view to their own?

In alt.atheism, it was an unpleasant experience as far as Christian proselytisers were concerned. It was never pretty.

Interested in trying the experiment for myself, I went along to a British Christian newsgroup. I, too, made the "I'm not here to convert you, if you allow me the same courtesy" introduction... only I kept to that. I had some interest in Christians in the UK (alt.atheism was almost exclusively American) and sated my curiosity. After a few weeks, I moved along... because it wasn't a place that was designed for (nor intended for) non-Christians.

KC doesn't seem to share that sentiment. And, again, I'm curious about that.

As a footnote to this, I had decided to do the same with other faiths, sampling their memes for short periods before moving on. I ended up dropping that plan. After leaving the Christian group to their conversations (mostly about homosexuality) I moved to a pagan group. After introducing myself (in the same polite manner as I'd done previously) I received so much hostility that I didn't bother staying. If there's a message there, it's that some pagans are a lot more aggressive towards atheists than some Christians. Or perhaps I was unlucky and found a group of particularly unwelcoming pagans.

I was originally going to ignore you because I don't feel the need to defend myself; however, you disposition seemed to change with this post, so I'll oblige your curiosity.

I originally came to this forum after germanyt (Tim) showed it to me at work. Strangely, it was one of the few places on the Internet that wasn't blocked by our filter. So, I started posting out of boredom and as a filler during the down times.

However, that wasn't the sole reason. I've always enjoyed opposing conversation, and I engaged in religious conversations regularly on anther forum. The traffic and intelligence was greater here, so I eventually left that place.

My intentions are nothing more than to participate and belong in a community... it just so happens that that community is mostly made of atheists. It is not my job to "save" people. That's God's job.

As Chas said, I prefer intelligent, stimulating conversations, and, unfortunately, this doesn't really exist within my community. My religious conversations are often seen as "too deep" or "over people's head". I find that that people who have deconverted from Christianity have done so because of their intelligence and logical approach to data. This is the type of person I like to associate with.

Morondog also alluded to the fact that my Christian views are somewhat shunned in the Baptist community. This is true, but it's not anything detrimental.

I like being the presence of those that believe differently than me. It helps my understanding and acceptance of others. Besides, constantly being around those that believe the same as you becomes a circle jerk of ideas and stagnates pretty quickly.

My church members know about my presence here, and some even see it as my "ministry". I don't think it's a "ministry": in connotation - me preaching and trying to convert - but I think it's a ministry for me and for atheists.

My ministry is to build of bridge between two parties who are at complete odds. This bridge is based on relationships, mutual understanding, and respect from one human to another. I don't see why the religious and irreligious have to be at odds, and I would like to remedy that... one keystroke at a time.

Yeah, I'm a freak. Yeah, I'm an oddball Christian that enjoys the company of atheists. But you know what? It works. So, maybe more Christians should be like me and more atheists be like the ones I call "friends".

PS - The quip about my wife was unnecessary. I'm an active member in this community; therefore, I share my life with this community. I've also posted many pictures of my children, my dogs, and myself. The fact that I've posted pictures of my wife is simply because she is my wife.

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31-07-2012, 11:45 AM
RE: Hello Atheists
This thread makes me laugh. Big Grin

KC on the forum team was a good idea, in my opinion.

But in an attempt to get this train back on its tracks, I'll address the OP.

(30-07-2012 09:18 PM)The Only Christian Here Wrote:  As I have clearly stated by my choice of username I am a Christian. I live in Celebration Florida with my husband and baby boy. We attend a church here in town and serve in our community. You're probably wondering what I'm doing on an Atheist website. First of all I'm not here because I'm trying to convert people. I assume everyone here is as firm in their beliefs as I am. I just have a couple questions. First of all, why does Atheism even exist? It seems like the absence of a belief in God would mean absence of religion and Atheism appears to be a religion, correct me if I'm wrong. Also, why do Atheists feel the need to disprove the existence of God? Since you don't believe in God why not just put the thought out of your mind, why spend time and energy thinking of ways to prove He doesn't exist? I ask these questions with innocent intentions. I'm comfortable with people asking me about my beliefs and hope you feel the same way. I'm only curious and not looking for a fight.

Your first question: Why does atheism even exist?
Well- it shouldn't. There shouldn't be a need for atheism. It should simply stand alone that I don't believe in any gods or the supernatural. Anything I might label as "supernatural" is simply due to a lack of full understanding of "the natural".

Atheism exists, as others have said, as a reaction to theism. The religious often have an aim to convert everyone to their flavor of "the truth", which is nestled in ancient myths and lore. Atheism is taking on a label that actively announces a lack of belief, and sometimes a statement that there is no god.

Second question: Why do atheists feel the need to disprove the existence of God?
Well it's not so much to disprove the existence of God, but to show that God is not a necessity for our existence. In fact, so far as we can tell there is no supernatural force relevant to our existence.

If you mean specifically the Christian God, then again- it's a reaction to the push of religion on us and others. People hold the Bible in such a high place, even when its contents are inconsistent within itself and greatly inconsistent with outside history. These people, like others have said, often use the Bible as a weapon to push through laws in government, control communities, and lord over other people. Conformation is a requirement for everyone. This is what we atheists react so strongly to.

But, here's the kicker- the advances in science are not aimed at disproving the existence of any gods. They are aimed at better understanding of our universe. That has resulted in the understanding that God simply isn't floating out there like we have thought for so long.

Could something exist? Sure, we can't disprove that. But if it does, it is apparently irrelevant, so why call it a god?

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31-07-2012, 11:51 AM
RE: Hello Atheists
(31-07-2012 11:17 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  ... mutual understanding, and respect from one human to another...

That's just sick and twisted.

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31-07-2012, 11:56 AM
RE: Hello Atheists
(31-07-2012 11:17 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I was originally going to ignore you because I don't feel the need to defend myself; however, you disposition seemed to change with this post, so I'll oblige your curiosity.

Curiosity* piqued.

And I mentioned your wife because I made my way through nearly the entire thread where people post pictures of themselves, so that the rest of us don't have to build a mental image. In my mind, it was 1 photo per person. As I made my way through it, it felt like I had access to your entire photo album. It seemed a bit... much. So I joked about it. Not all of my jokes have smiley-faces after them. I like to think that (at times) a joke is too obvious to need highlighting as such.


* Curiosity killed the Celt
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31-07-2012, 11:57 AM
RE: Hello Atheists
(31-07-2012 08:27 AM)Red Celt Wrote:  
(31-07-2012 08:20 AM)morondog Wrote:  Gotta disagree with you here. I'd rather talk to them. Being all insular, you stay over there and I'll stay over here, is a recipe for a lack of understanding.

Is there anyone here who does not know what theists think of atheists? Anybody with no personal experience whatsoever of non-atheists? I'd be willing to wager that none of us are insular or lack understanding about such things.

Else we wouldn't feel the need to talk about it.

I'd venture to guess that most of us have been Christians at some point.

Your horrid behavior to a fellow human being who came here with nothing but polite questions makes me think those of us who are polite and civil must have learned that as Christians because your fucking behavior is fuckjng uncalled for. Get a grip, you uncivil sniveling little twat.

Now, with that out of the way, welcome, OP. Don't take Red Dolt's greeting with anything less than a grain of salt. The majority of us are civil until your second post at least. Big Grin

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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31-07-2012, 11:58 AM
RE: Hello Atheists
Welcome christian I hope you continue posting. Morondog mentioned the main point that atheism exists because of theism. I would love to never think about these things, but i was brought up in an area where that wasn't posible. Currently I live somewhere whre religion is not as big of an issue, but it's still a global issue. I don't feel there's any reason you need to be a non-christian, but I know plenty of people who are very adamant that I need to be a multitude of religions.

Atheism is not a religion, though currently it is being described as a minority. I hope that we continue to build the group as a civic movement and make the views which we hold perfectly acceptable with the general population (everyone is impossible). When we start making non-theistic centers there will be no reason to consider them churches as long as we don't focus on rituals and patterned behavior.

I apologize for Celt but we're going to have some arguments now and then.

Ok Celt I'm coming onto you now. Firstly I'll make a complaint with you that I make with others. If someone is posting a question and not trying to force anything what exactly is wrong? You have no necessity to read every thread that exists, and it's highly likely that she will be happy after getting an answer and move on. However, if she has other questions a response like yours was might convince her not to ask. If you want to talk about mission, while our forum is not Seth's it is tied to him and his message is quite clear on this. He wants understanding and comradery. He wants us to be able to be friends and live our lives. If a christian comes to his forum it's perfectly possible that they are taking up his offer of friendship and understanding. Shooting someone down simply for being different than you is definitely not something we want to suggest is our general mission.

Feel free to continue reacting this way as we have no restrictions against these attitudes, but I would prefer it if you let people get in their questions and learn about what they want to learn about. When they start proselytizing is when you have goo reason to get worried for that. I think it's one of the worst habits people can have to expect every individual to follow a historical example. I try to avoid biases , and like to think people might not do the things i don't want them to.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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31-07-2012, 12:03 PM
RE: Hello Atheists
(31-07-2012 11:57 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Your horrid behavior to a fellow human being who came here with nothing but polite questions makes me think those of us who are polite and civil must have learned that as Christians because your fucking behavior is fuckjng uncalled for. Get a grip, you uncivil sniveling little twat.

You're suggesting that civility is a Christian invention? Just... wow!

I treat others how they treat me. I also treat others online in the exact same way that I would treat them offline. As such, call me a "sniveling little twat" to my face. I dare you.
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31-07-2012, 12:04 PM
RE: Hello Atheists
(31-07-2012 11:58 AM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  If someone is posting a question and not trying to force anything what exactly is wrong?

Lilith, re-read what the OP said. It wasn't polite. It might have been worded politely, but the intent sure as hell wasn't.
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