Hello from KC's brother
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24-10-2012, 07:00 AM
RE: Hello from KC's brother
An omnipotent god could have made a family of universe makers, with the capacity to have children, which had the capacity to make this universe appear to be as we see it. Evil is just the proof that the child, making universes, has not quite mastered the task yet. Drinking Beverage

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24-10-2012, 08:23 AM
Hello from KC's brother
(24-10-2012 07:00 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  An omnipotent god could have made a family of universe makers, with the capacity to have children, which had the capacity to make this universe appear to be as we see it. Evil is just the proof that the child, making universes, has not quite mastered the task yet. Drinking Beverage

I thought this thread was about Calvinism not Mormonism. Drinking Beverage

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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24-10-2012, 10:32 AM (This post was last modified: 24-10-2012 10:35 AM by Vosur.)
RE: Hello from KC's brother
(23-10-2012 11:45 PM)morondog Wrote:  This fine tuning... you say you don't regard it as *evidence* but as... something like a pointer, something that gives you a suspicion that the universe is designed?

Chas's contention is that we don't know that the universe is fine tuned. I'm more inclined to go with that too. If you're an evolutionist, then you know that *life adapts*, right? So the whole bullshit of being exactly the right distance from the sun - if we had evolved on an Earth closer to the Sun, then life would have adapted differently, and similarly for further away.

I am aware that there are other arguments for fine tuning but again, these can be answered by invoking... dun dun dun... the anthropic principle Smile Which says "Oh lookee, we're here on Earth wondering wtf just happened" - the key point is that if the universe constants had been sufficiently fucked up we'd never have evolved to question why they were so beautifully fine tuned for evolution.

Can you offer an alternative view, for why you would *disregard* for example, the anthropic principle? For why you *would* believe that the universe *was* in fact fine tuned for life? Not just life but human life. Stuck out on this speck of dirt in the middle of nowhere.
Claiming that the Universe was fine-tuned to support the existence of life seems rather strange when you consider that it is, for the most part, unihabitable and that our planet is just one of the few exceptions to this.

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24-10-2012, 05:54 PM
RE: Hello from KC's brother
(24-10-2012 10:32 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(23-10-2012 11:45 PM)morondog Wrote:  This fine tuning... you say you don't regard it as *evidence* but as... something like a pointer, something that gives you a suspicion that the universe is designed?

Chas's contention is that we don't know that the universe is fine tuned. I'm more inclined to go with that too. If you're an evolutionist, then you know that *life adapts*, right? So the whole bullshit of being exactly the right distance from the sun - if we had evolved on an Earth closer to the Sun, then life would have adapted differently, and similarly for further away.

I am aware that there are other arguments for fine tuning but again, these can be answered by invoking... dun dun dun... the anthropic principle Smile Which says "Oh lookee, we're here on Earth wondering wtf just happened" - the key point is that if the universe constants had been sufficiently fucked up we'd never have evolved to question why they were so beautifully fine tuned for evolution.

Can you offer an alternative view, for why you would *disregard* for example, the anthropic principle? For why you *would* believe that the universe *was* in fact fine tuned for life? Not just life but human life. Stuck out on this speck of dirt in the middle of nowhere.
Claiming that the Universe was fine-tuned to support the existence of life seems rather strange when you consider that it is, for the most part, unihabitable and that our planet is just one of the few exceptions to this.

The average life of a Black hole is 10^100 years. The life of our sun is 10^20 years or less. That means, to 80 decimal places, (ie ZERO), the universe will have no life. The universe is not fine-tuned for life. Drinking Beverage

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"And you quit footing the bill for these nations that are oil rich - we're paying for some of their *squirmishes* that have been going on for centuries" - Sarah Palin
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24-10-2012, 09:18 PM
RE: Hello from KC's brother
Ya know what? If we just kill these Calvinists, we wouldn't have these stupid arguments. And if we kill 'em, god obviously predetermined it, so... win/win. Big Grin

The only thing fine-tuned is the damn mathematics. That, and yer fucking ignorance. Big Grin

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24-10-2012, 11:34 PM
RE: Hello from KC's brother
(24-10-2012 10:32 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Claiming that the Universe was fine-tuned to support the existence of life seems rather strange when you consider that it is, for the most part, unihabitable and that our planet is just one of the few exceptions to this.

The only so far AFAIK ? Yada yada martian life etc but it's all helluva inconclusive and mostly wishful thinking as far as I can make out.
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24-10-2012, 11:51 PM
RE: Hello from KC's brother
(24-10-2012 11:34 PM)morondog Wrote:  The only so far AFAIK ? Yada yada martian life etc but it's all helluva inconclusive and mostly wishful thinking as far as I can make out.
You probably just haven't done any research. Wink
http://phl.upr.edu/projects/habitable-ex...talog/data

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24-10-2012, 11:54 PM
RE: Hello from KC's brother
(24-10-2012 11:51 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(24-10-2012 11:34 PM)morondog Wrote:  The only so far AFAIK ? Yada yada martian life etc but it's all helluva inconclusive and mostly wishful thinking as far as I can make out.
You probably just haven't done any research. Wink
http://phl.upr.edu/projects/habitable-ex...talog/data

*Potential* habitable worlds... =/= inhabited Wink
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24-10-2012, 11:56 PM
RE: Hello from KC's brother
(24-10-2012 11:54 PM)morondog Wrote:  *Potential* habitable worlds... =/= inhabited Wink
'Never said anything about other planets being inhabited.

(24-10-2012 10:32 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Claiming that the Universe was fine-tuned to support the existence of life seems rather strange when you consider that it is, for the most part, unihabitable and that our planet is just one of the few exceptions to this.

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25-10-2012, 12:18 AM
RE: Hello from KC's brother
... The shame Weeping Getting schooled by a German in my own native lingo...
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