Hello from KC's brother
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22-10-2012, 12:29 PM (This post was last modified: 22-10-2012 12:34 PM by Vosur.)
RE: Hello from KC's brother
(22-10-2012 12:11 PM)Zoebion Wrote:  I'll answer them for you good sir. Briefly and to the point:

1). I don't believe science proves or disproves God. There is no empirical evidence for God in science. My belief has more to do with theological and metaphysical reasons, namely faith.
I'm afraid there's not much to discuss about if your belief is faith-based.

(22-10-2012 12:11 PM)Zoebion Wrote:  However, I do think that the fine tuning of the universe, though not absolute proof of God, are compatible with theistic belief and point towards it.
Concluding that because we currently don't have a coherent scientific theory to explain something, god must have done it, is Bronze Age thinking.

"God of the gaps is a type of theological perspective in which gaps in scientific knowledge are taken to be evidence or proof of God's existence." [sic]

"The argument from imperfection suggests that if the Universe were designed to be fine-tuned for life, it should be the best one possible and that evidence suggests that it is not. In fact, most of the Universe is highly hostile to life." [sic]

"We have no reason to believe that our kind of carbon-based life is all that is possible. Furthermore, modern cosmology indicates that multiple universes may exist with different constants and laws of physics. So, it is not surprising that we live in the one suited for us. The Universe is not fine-tuned to life; life is fine-tuned to the Universe." [sic]

(22-10-2012 12:11 PM)Zoebion Wrote:  Also, the moral law. Moral creatures are exactly what we should expect to see in evolution if a moral God is guiding it.
Care to elaborate on that point? What moral law are you talking about? What do you understand by "moral creatures"?

(22-10-2012 12:11 PM)Zoebion Wrote:  3) Yes, I consider myself to be honest about evidence. Which is why I have changed my beliefs from a YEC dispensationalists Arminian fundamentalists to an EC/TE Reformed perspective.
If your belief is based on faith instead of evidence, my question becomes obsolete. Thanks for answering nonetheless.
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22-10-2012, 12:45 PM
RE: Hello from KC's brother
(22-10-2012 09:12 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(22-10-2012 04:59 AM)Chas Wrote:  How does one even begin to believe that death-cult, hopeless, dehumanizing Calvinism crap?
It gives you a huge ego boost after all. It's the most arrogant amongst all beliefs.

"I'm elected to spend eternity in heaven with my buddy god regardless how much of a bad person I am, while all the unelected trash suffers eternal torture in hell regardless of how good they were."

Of course they all must think they're elect; how could you even get up in the morning if you thought you weren't?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-10-2012, 12:49 PM
RE: Hello from KC's brother
(22-10-2012 12:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-10-2012 09:12 AM)Vosur Wrote:  It gives you a huge ego boost after all. It's the most arrogant amongst all beliefs.

"I'm elected to spend eternity in heaven with my buddy god regardless how much of a bad person I am, while all the unelected trash suffers eternal torture in hell regardless of how good they were."

Of course they all must think they're elect; how could you even get up in the morning if you thought you weren't?


Oh, oh! Now I have a question!
Do you ever wonder if there could be people who believe in Calvinism who think they aren't elect? Like, maybe they're just there for the donuts or something?

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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22-10-2012, 12:51 PM
RE: Hello from KC's brother
(22-10-2012 12:11 PM)Zoebion Wrote:  
(21-10-2012 08:04 PM)Vosur Wrote:  In that case, I've got three questions for you. If you don't want to answer them, that's cool.

1. Do you have any scientific, let alone falsifiable, evidence for your belief? If you don't, why do you still believe?
2. Is the first quote implying that you do not have any doubts any longer? If so, why?
3. Are you intellectually honest enough to change or reconsider your position when you're shown to be in the wrong?

That is all.

I'll answer them for you good sir. Briefly and to the point:

1). I don't believe science proves or disproves God. There is no empirical evidence for God in science. My belief has more to do with theological and metaphysical reasons, namely faith. However, I do think that the fine tuning of the universe, though not absolute proof of God, are compatible with theistic belief and point towards it. Also, the moral law. Moral creatures are exactly what we should expect to see in evolution if a moral God is guiding it.

2). My doubts had not to do with science, etc, but with issues of biblical inerrancy. But I realized what I had been taught created a false dichotomy and was using scripture in a way it wasn't intended- mainly using it to address issues of modern science and expecting it to read as modern history.

3) Yes, I consider myself to be honest about evidence. Which is why I have changed my beliefs from a YEC dispensationalists Arminian fundamentalists to an EC/TE Reformed perspective.

Your presence here is clearly redundant. You display an identical lack of critical thinking skills as your brother. Sad, really.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-10-2012, 01:03 PM
RE: Hello from KC's brother
TERSE AND DEADLY INCOMING!!!

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!

Tongue
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22-10-2012, 01:04 PM
RE: Hello from KC's brother
(22-10-2012 12:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  Your presence here is clearly redundant. You display an identical lack of critical thinking skills as your brother. Sad, really.

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22-10-2012, 01:09 PM
Hello from KC's brother
Lol Magoo

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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22-10-2012, 01:27 PM
RE: Hello from KC's brother
Welcome aboard Smile

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
David Hume
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22-10-2012, 01:56 PM
RE: Hello from KC's brother
(22-10-2012 12:49 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(22-10-2012 12:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  Of course they all must think they're elect; how could you even get up in the morning if you thought you weren't?


Oh, oh! Now I have a question!
Do you ever wonder if there could be people who believe in Calvinism who think they aren't elect? Like, maybe they're just there for the donuts or something?

Hell, I'd convert for really good doughnuts. Yes

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-10-2012, 01:58 PM
RE: Hello from KC's brother
(22-10-2012 01:56 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-10-2012 12:49 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Oh, oh! Now I have a question!
Do you ever wonder if there could be people who believe in Calvinism who think they aren't elect? Like, maybe they're just there for the donuts or something?

Hell, I'd convert for really good doughnuts. Yes

As long as they're glazed jelly-filled. Consider

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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