Hello, from an ex-atheist
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12-10-2016, 11:20 AM
RE: Hello, from an ex-atheist
(12-10-2016 10:29 AM)Commonsensei Wrote:  I identified as an agnostic for some time. before finialy realizing is just a softer form of one side. I know identify as an agnostic atheist.
...
We have a jar of marbles...
...
So the same is for God. Ether there is some sort of god or there isn't...
...
Now there are people that are hard atheists that don't and wont believe. And there are soft atheist that don't believe but would with enough proof.

I'm also interested in your good reasons for god. Perhaps you've discovered something we haven't. Or perhaps this ideas that you've attributed haven't been challenged. In ether case I sure many of us would like to hear. Perhaps when you have time you can explained on that subject.

CYA

I am aware of the common definitions of the labels as well as the gumball/marbles analogy, I don't use those exact definitions though because I've found they don't accurately describe the states of my belief/nonbelief.
Like I said, I was a soft agnostic atheist for almost all of my adolescence, so I'm fairly well-versed in atheistic talking points.
But aside from that, just communicating on this forum the past 24 hours has reignited my passion for arguing with online people so I do intend to express my beliefs more precisely. I'll just have to learn how to navigate the forums first.Thumbsup
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12-10-2016, 11:25 AM
RE: Hello, from an ex-atheist
(12-10-2016 11:18 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 11:03 AM)unknowndevil666 Wrote:  I'm glad for that Thumbsup
I've just been in an intellectual struggle about what meanings of labels make the most sense after watching Matt Dillahunty's latest discussion video ("You're not an atheist, you're an agnostic") on his Youtube channel. It's a more complex an interesting issue than it seems at first glance!

You can always bag labels and just live in the gray area. Wink Sometimes several different (and conflicting) philosophies can make up your worldview. You don't have to exist in black and white thinking.

For example, if I *was* going to label myself, I would say I'm an atheist, but I love the spirituality of Hinduism and yoga and I have incorporated many of the yogic principles into my life. So am I an atheist or am I more spiritual? Or am I a spiritual atheist? I also go to church sometimes and enjoy reading the Bible and other religious works. So am I an atheist spiritual cultural Christian who enjoys learning about various religions from an anthropological and historical point of view? Tongue

No doubt, the gray area is where it's at. I get to hang out with the cool people here Big Grin
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12-10-2016, 11:33 AM
RE: Hello, from an ex-atheist
(12-10-2016 11:25 AM)skyking Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 11:18 AM)jennybee Wrote:  You can always bag labels and just live in the gray area. Wink Sometimes several different (and conflicting) philosophies can make up your worldview. You don't have to exist in black and white thinking.

For example, if I *was* going to label myself, I would say I'm an atheist, but I love the spirituality of Hinduism and yoga and I have incorporated many of the yogic principles into my life. So am I an atheist or am I more spiritual? Or am I a spiritual atheist? I also go to church sometimes and enjoy reading the Bible and other religious works. So am I an atheist spiritual cultural Christian who enjoys learning about various religions from an anthropological and historical point of view? Tongue

No doubt, the gray area is where it's at. I get to hang out with the cool people here Big Grin

Tongue

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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12-10-2016, 11:41 AM
RE: Hello, from an ex-atheist
Hi unknowndevil666, glad you stumbled across this place.

Sounds like you might be a tad concerned with the exact way other people are allowed to think of you. Consider Or are you just overly concerned about how you are allowed to think of yourself? Hmm. Personally, I couldn't give a rat's ass, who thinks what of whom.

To know one's self at any given moment, can very often be just out of reach but, even that is enough.

So, whomever or whatever you are or think you might be ... Welcome to the forum. Smile

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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12-10-2016, 11:54 AM
RE: Hello, from an ex-atheist
(12-10-2016 11:41 AM)kim Wrote:  Sounds like you might be a tad concerned with the exact way other people are allowed to think of you. Consider Or are you just overly concerned about how you are allowed to think of yourself?

Well, one thing I certainly dislike is when people try to box others into certain labels. In the same way an atheist would dislike or think it wrong to be called agnostic by theists, I get peeved when people try to categorize me into something. Specifically the atheist-agnostic thing because it's usually because people think agnostics are "wishy-washy" atheists, which some are, but not all, and I wouldn't say a significant amount. I also fervently try to be as correct as possible in my thinking which is why I respond to as much as I can as accurately as I can.
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12-10-2016, 12:37 PM
RE: Hello, from an ex-atheist
(12-10-2016 11:54 AM)unknowndevil666 Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 11:41 AM)kim Wrote:  Sounds like you might be a tad concerned with the exact way other people are allowed to think of you. Consider Or are you just overly concerned about how you are allowed to think of yourself?

Well, one thing I certainly dislike is when people try to box others into certain labels. In the same way an atheist would dislike or think it wrong to be called agnostic by theists, I get peeved when people try to categorize me into something. Specifically the atheist-agnostic thing because it's usually because people think agnostics are "wishy-washy" atheists, which some are, but not all, and I wouldn't say a significant amount. I also fervently try to be as correct as possible in my thinking which is why I respond to as much as I can as accurately as I can.

Not everyone on here views agnostics as wishy-washy atheists. I'd say for the most part, this is a very open-minded, accepting community. We actually have a few pretty cool theists here that are well-respected by this community.

I think you might be getting a lil blow back from your post because most people who come on here and immediately do a poll or post their beliefs (without first doing an intro) are drive by trolls looking to start trouble. It might not be right to immediately think that on our part--but when it keeps happening...it's like Pavlov's dog with trolls. I think the sense was that you were trying to start a debate via the poll, so that's why people were trying to put you in a box, so to speak.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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12-10-2016, 12:47 PM
RE: Hello, from an ex-atheist
(12-10-2016 11:54 AM)unknowndevil666 Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 11:41 AM)kim Wrote:  Sounds like you might be a tad concerned with the exact way other people are allowed to think of you. Consider Or are you just overly concerned about how you are allowed to think of yourself?

Well, one thing I certainly dislike is when people try to box others into certain labels. In the same way an atheist would dislike or think it wrong to be called agnostic by theists, I get peeved when people try to categorize me into something. Specifically the atheist-agnostic thing because it's usually because people think agnostics are "wishy-washy" atheists, which some are, but not all, and I wouldn't say a significant amount. I also fervently try to be as correct as possible in my thinking which is why I respond to as much as I can as accurately as I can.

Some hardcore atheists feel that "agnostic" is a cop-out -- if you don't believe in God, just admit it and call yourself an atheist, dammit! But in my opinion, it's impossible to know for sure one way or the other, so technically, everyone is agnostic. But most people, even if they don't claim certain knowledge, lean strongly one way or another. I lean strongly toward the atheist end of the spectrum, so if you want to be precise, I'm an agnostic atheist. But I will happily answer to either "atheist" or "agnostic". In a sense, though, if everyone is agnostic (as I believe), that label is a bit redundant.

Bottom line: as others have said, the label isn't all that important. And welcome to the forum!
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12-10-2016, 12:52 PM
RE: Hello, from an ex-atheist
(12-10-2016 12:47 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 11:54 AM)unknowndevil666 Wrote:  Well, one thing I certainly dislike is when people try to box others into certain labels. In the same way an atheist would dislike or think it wrong to be called agnostic by theists, I get peeved when people try to categorize me into something. Specifically the atheist-agnostic thing because it's usually because people think agnostics are "wishy-washy" atheists, which some are, but not all, and I wouldn't say a significant amount. I also fervently try to be as correct as possible in my thinking which is why I respond to as much as I can as accurately as I can.

Some hardcore atheists feel that "agnostic" is a cop-out -- if you don't believe in God, just admit it and call yourself an atheist, dammit! But in my opinion, it's impossible to know for sure one way or the other, so technically, everyone is agnostic. But most people, even if they don't claim certain knowledge, lean strongly one way or another. I lean strongly toward the atheist end of the spectrum, so if you want to be precise, I'm an agnostic atheist. But I will happily answer to either "atheist" or "agnostic". In a sense, though, if everyone is agnostic (as I believe), that label is a bit redundant.

Bottom line: as others have said, the label isn't all that important. And welcome to the forum!

Agreed. The Spectrum of Theistic Probability...

[Image: BY4blbbCUAE2Zfe.jpg]

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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12-10-2016, 12:54 PM
RE: Hello, from an ex-atheist
(12-10-2016 12:52 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 12:47 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Some hardcore atheists feel that "agnostic" is a cop-out -- if you don't believe in God, just admit it and call yourself an atheist, dammit! But in my opinion, it's impossible to know for sure one way or the other, so technically, everyone is agnostic. But most people, even if they don't claim certain knowledge, lean strongly one way or another. I lean strongly toward the atheist end of the spectrum, so if you want to be precise, I'm an agnostic atheist. But I will happily answer to either "atheist" or "agnostic". In a sense, though, if everyone is agnostic (as I believe), that label is a bit redundant.

Bottom line: as others have said, the label isn't all that important. And welcome to the forum!

Agreed. The Spectrum of Theistic Probability...

[Image: BY4blbbCUAE2Zfe.jpg]

I'm a 6. I claim that anyone who self-identifies as either 1 or 7 is deluded. But it's always possible that I'm deluded about that.

Tongue
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12-10-2016, 12:55 PM
RE: Hello, from an ex-atheist
(12-10-2016 11:54 AM)unknowndevil666 Wrote:  Well, one thing I certainly dislike is when people try to box others into certain labels. In the same way an atheist would dislike or think it wrong to be called agnostic by theists, I get peeved when people try to categorize me into something. Specifically the atheist-agnostic thing because it's usually because people think agnostics are "wishy-washy" atheists, which some are, but not all, and I wouldn't say a significant amount. I also fervently try to be as correct as possible in my thinking which is why I respond to as much as I can as accurately as I can.

Ha - I don't think it's wrong or dislike it when a theist calls me agnostic. In fact, I'm kind of relieved... really, I'm just glad they can even get close to the idea that I might not share their addiction. Angel

Sounds as if you may have encountered a few of our fellow hardcore, anti-theists. Sorry 'bout that. Wink I've observed that many previous believers, especially the newly de-converted, might harbor considerable resentment toward theism. I don't wonder why, anymore - I'm sure they have their reasons.

As we've discovered in this conversation, people are different. I often think it's sometimes easier or more accurate to say what one is not, rather than declare what one is. We often know what we are not at any given moment - it can be fairly definitive. However, if one continues to grow and change... then, to be is in continual flux. In a sense, we can't know exactly what we are. Blink I obviously haven't had lunch, yet.

Keeping an open mind requires a certain amount of flexibility. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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