Hello, from an ex-atheist
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12-10-2016, 03:14 PM
RE: Hello, from an ex-atheist
(12-10-2016 09:23 AM)unknowndevil666 Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 08:20 AM)Chas Wrote:  How did that influence it? Consider

I don't know if I can say they lead directly into me thinking "Hey, a god can exist", but they did influence my worldview which eventually adopted an idea of god. Specifically, some of the concepts were (and I added some from physics as well):
  • the omnipresence of complexity
  • information theory
  • how axioms define truths as well as the results of Godel's Incompleteness Theorems
  • set theory as the foundation of mathematics
  • Einstein's relativity
  • quantum field theory
  • multiverse/simulation theory

like you, my fields of study and work are mathematics and computer science, and those points lead me to the opposite conclusion. Consider

Quote:Some of the beliefs I began to develop over time were (roughly):
  • physical and mathematical reality as one in the same
  • reality is not bound to the universe we live in
  • existence (and very recently time and space) as relative to systems (vague, I know)
I'm going to stop here 'cause my head is starting to hurt trying to remember things.
Oh, and as for the agnostic deist thing, I'll be taking note of that Angel

Those ideas do not resonate with me in the least. No

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-10-2016, 03:29 PM
RE: Hello, from an ex-atheist
Welcome to the forum. As others have said, don't sweat the labels. You are who you are and can call yourself what you like. Anybody who gets miffed about that is just being silly.

Aside from Jenny's excellent point about not being groceries, I find that the labels don't typically work well even when everybody agrees to the meanings. I self-identify as an agnostic atheist, which is true enough when referring to a generic Creator. If we're talking about a biblically literal god that created the universe in 4004 BC then I'm going to be a whole lot more gnostic, so the labels don't properly work when I'm talking about myself.

One or two words are insufficient to meaningfully describe the worldview of anything more sophisticated than a dormouse.

My experience has been that the "agnostic" label does trigger an almost Pavlovian response in evangelicals who will view you as easy meat. On the flip side, it doesn't get the knee-jerk negative reaction that "atheist" invokes and will have them checking you for cloven hooves.

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12-10-2016, 03:33 PM
RE: Hello, from an ex-atheist
(12-10-2016 03:29 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  Welcome to the forum. As others have said, don't sweat the labels. You are who you are and can call yourself what you like. Anybody who gets miffed about that is just being silly.

Aside from Jenny's excellent point about not being groceries, I find that the labels don't typically work well even when everybody agrees to the meanings. I self-identify as an agnostic atheist, which is true enough when referring to a generic Creator. If we're talking about a biblically literal god that created the universe in 4004 BC then I'm going to be a whole lot more gnostic, so the labels don't properly work when I'm talking about myself.

One or two words are insufficient to meaningfully describe the worldview of anything more sophisticated than a dormouse.

My experience has been that the "agnostic" label does trigger an almost Pavlovian response in evangelicals who will view you as easy meat. On the flip side, it doesn't get the knee-jerk negative reaction that "atheist" invokes and will have them checking you for cloven hooves.

It is so hard to find a nice pair of heels when you've got cloven hooves Tongue

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12-10-2016, 06:46 PM
RE: Hello, from an ex-atheist
(12-10-2016 03:14 PM)Chas Wrote:  like you, my fields of study and work are mathematics and computer science, and those points lead me to the opposite conclusion. Consider
...
Those ideas do not resonate with me in the least. No

So I'm curious as well. What are some things that you believe that make you object to these views?
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12-10-2016, 07:26 PM
RE: Hello, from an ex-atheist
(12-10-2016 06:46 PM)unknowndevil666 Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 03:14 PM)Chas Wrote:  like you, my fields of study and work are mathematics and computer science, and those points lead me to the opposite conclusion. Consider
...
Those ideas do not resonate with me in the least. No

So I'm curious as well. What are some things that you believe that make you object to these views?

You have provided no logical explanation tying the ideas in the first list to your conclusion.

As for the second list, there is no evidence for any of them. I doubt they are testable, let alone falsifiable; therefore, they are not scientific hypotheses.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-10-2016, 08:56 PM
RE: Hello, from an ex-atheist
Greetings.
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12-10-2016, 09:11 PM
RE: Hello, from an ex-atheist
(12-10-2016 07:57 AM)unknowndevil666 Wrote:  Hello, everyone. I am new to forums in general so I'm not sure what to say. I guess I'll start with my beliefs.

I identify as agnostic. I was an agnostic atheist for about 5 years but then transitioned to just agnostic when I found good reasons to believe in a deistic type of god. I know "agnostic" is an argued term, but I use it because I think most people recognize it is used as a sort of "middle ground" between theism and atheism, even if they don't agree with it. Over the past couple of weeks, I have been struggling with defining these terms and I've found that what made me an atheist was that I was pretty sure that no gods existed. So when I found good reasons for the existence of a god I was no longer "pretty sure", I was uncertain. And that made me feel like I couldn't identify with other atheists (though I was already having problems with that) nor did I think I felt like an atheist, so I thought agnostic made more sense.

So that's how I transitioned from atheist to agnostic. I spent so much time on that just because I think it's a fairly rare change compared to theist to atheist. Also I know agnostic itself is disliked by most atheists, so I felt the need to explain what I mean by it.

Anyway, some other things:
  • My favorite academic subjects are mathematics and computer science, which go hand-in-hand. Insight into these fields are what influenced my transition to agnostic.
  • I like science, but on a more theoretical/conceptual level. My interest comes from my urge to understand the fundamental truths of reality, so I'm not really interested in the more pragmatic of scientific fields. My favorite science in high school was physics.
  • I like Japanese stuff. Mainly anime and manga. That sort of stuff. In general, I like cartoons for their removal from reality. I have watched most episodes of Family Guy and South Park multiple times while I've never touched Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones. I do like old sitcoms though.

So that's some stuff about me. I only joined to make a post in the "Atheism and Theism" forum (from which I was advised to introduce myself here first), but I'm hoping to continue being part of the community.

nice to meet you. Just so you know there is no such thing as an agnostic and you are an atheist so you gotta just deal with that.

Welcome to the forums.


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkRdbq...rLEz-0jEHQ
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12-10-2016, 09:15 PM
RE: Hello, from an ex-atheist
G'day mate, and welcome. Smile

I identify as a #7 on Dawkins' scale, and always have. Anybody who's a #6 or less must by default believe in the possible existence of ghosts, miracles, reincarnation, astrology, telekinesis, and clairvoyance.

Like gods, all supernatural or paranormal phenomena.

Rolleyes

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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12-10-2016, 09:20 PM
RE: Hello, from an ex-atheist
(12-10-2016 07:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  You have provided no logical explanation tying the ideas in the first list to your conclusion.

As for the second list, there is no evidence for any of them. I doubt they are testable, let alone falsifiable; therefore, they are not scientific hypotheses.

I wasn't trying to make an argument, I was just expressing my beliefs and the concepts I use that influenced them, so I didn't try to tie them together.
Now I asked about your beliefs, but I can only try and assume from your response that you just don't believe there is evidence. And then you say you're doubtful, but it then turns into a certain "therefore, they are not".
What I was hoping to look for was not what you don't believe but what you do believe. What do you believe about the nature of mathematics? What do you believe about the extent of the powers of science? Things like that.
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12-10-2016, 09:22 PM
RE: Hello, from an ex-atheist
(12-10-2016 09:11 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  nice to meet you. Just so you know there is no such thing as an agnostic and you are an atheist so you gotta just deal with that.

Welcome to the forums.

I've argued extensively on the meaning of the labels so I'm not going to continue that here but I feel the need to point out that what you're stating as fact is fairly contested among other atheists on this forum.
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