Help! "Advanced" Pascal's Wager
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07-02-2017, 08:15 PM
RE: Help! "Advanced" Pascal's Wager
(07-02-2017 08:10 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Here’s a little limerick I wrote.

A Christian a Moslem and Jew

Argued 'bout who's God was true.
They yelled and they screamed

And all three blasphemed

With no God to insult in my view.


[Image: fa6abf94eae77dc474a206955764b3608eb5717a...e9f8b1.jpg]

*whose. Drinking Beverage

#sigh
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07-02-2017, 08:37 PM
RE: Help! "Advanced" Pascal's Wager
(07-02-2017 08:15 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(07-02-2017 08:10 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Here’s a little limerick I wrote.

A Christian a Moslem and Jew

Argued 'bout who's God was true.
They yelled and they screamed

And all three blasphemed

With no God to insult in my view.


[Image: fa6abf94eae77dc474a206955764b3608eb5717a...e9f8b1.jpg]

*whose. Drinking Beverage

We're still doing this?

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
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07-02-2017, 09:34 PM
RE: Help! "Advanced" Pascal's Wager
(07-02-2017 06:13 PM)SylvanAuctor Wrote:  
(07-02-2017 06:07 PM)Chas Wrote:  Not I.
If you can't see the absurdity of the whole thing, then it is your gullibility that is harming you.

I'm trying very hard to see the absurdity, but the fear remains. I'm fresh out of religion and still trying to deal with the fears. Sorry if that's outside what you can help, but I just want out of this terror.

Deconversion is a process.
It happens over time.
The editors who wrote and edited the gospels had reasons for what they put there. Looks like they hooked you. Dodgy
You might find this series helpful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12rP8ybp1...44A52AB5F2

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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07-02-2017, 10:21 PM
RE: Help! "Advanced" Pascal's Wager
(07-02-2017 05:37 PM)SylvanAuctor Wrote:  Hi all. I confess I found the forums after finding little atheist help for this question.

In my departure from religion, I always promised myself that if evidence came along to return me to it, I would take it. However, I just recently found a verse I had not read in my 2 year deconversion. Matthew 12:31-2 describes the "unforgivable" or "eternal" (depending on translation) sin. This is called "Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit." I fear to commit this even while disbelieving the Bible.

I was fine taking the atheist position before knowing this verse, but the prospect of being proved wrong and being utterly helpless to change my fate is more terrifying still. What if I find compelling evidence of Christianity the day after committing the sin?

I don't mean to judge anyone else by this, but: It seems arrogant to me to say "I am so certain that Christianity is false that I am willing to cut off all chance of forgiveness if it is right."

Furthermore, Christians are in dispute over what the sin means. My fear is so great that I have stopped collaborating with writers who were my friends, for fear that they would commit the sin in their work and I would share in the guilt.

Can someone help me with this?

You would surrender yourself so completely to the idea of a god? Why would you not then instead surrender yourself to the realm of reality? Of what you do know to be true for certain.

Yes religion allows people to have a sense of security and being 'in control' if you went back to religion out of fear instead of belief, then you would commit yourself to a lie, for it would be something you profess to believe in and not be something you actually believed in your heart.

This false belief of paschel's wagers will not save you from the Christian hell. Because it says in their bible that a person can 'sin in their heart' - "if I had cherished sin in my heart, the lord would not have listened"

Already now you have 'blasphemed against god' one pastafarian joke to many. So you're in it to win it now.
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07-02-2017, 10:30 PM
RE: Help! "Advanced" Pascal's Wager
(07-02-2017 08:37 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  
(07-02-2017 08:15 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  *whose. Drinking Beverage

We're still doing this?

Vosur's been AWOL.

#sigh
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08-02-2017, 12:10 AM
RE: Help! "Advanced" Pascal's Wager
(07-02-2017 10:30 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(07-02-2017 08:37 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  We're still doing this?

Vosur's been AWOL.

I'm worried about him. Blush


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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08-02-2017, 01:41 AM
RE: Help! "Advanced" Pascal's Wager
If you aren't afraid of displeasing Odin why you should fear displeasing Yahweh? Christian fables aren't more real than Norse ones, they are just more popular in our time.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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08-02-2017, 01:45 AM
RE: Help! "Advanced" Pascal's Wager
There's no God to worry about insulting.

God is a constructed cult - ever since the first priest realised that he could make false claims about God and get people to do what he wanted, religion has been amassing a whole set of memes to keep people compliant. It's a toxic cocktail of ideas which by now self-propagates.

One of the central protective memes is the idea that dissent will be punished. It's a part of the meme-mix because it does have an effect, as you yourself can see. Another protective meme is the idea that other religions are bad, and that unbelief is even worse.

Belief is a virtue - meme. "Wise men" are actually fools because God specifically confuses them - meme. Purpose is to a. make people feel better about themselves (I've always thought I'm pretty average but God has made the fools into wise men, or some such horseshit). b. to protect against what wise men may say - because your average wise man is not helluva susceptible to priestly blandishments, unless he himself is a priest.

You see, religion is a self-propagating collection of ideas that aren't necessarily true, but they are passed on anyway because like actual *genes* in DNA, they all work together to ensure their mutual survival.

This unforgivable sin horseshit is just another thing that some stupid priest threw together at some point to cow people and scare them. It actually works best for believers, because they spend a lot of time endlessly worrying about whether or not they've pissed off God beyond redemption which makes them that much more anxious to please the priest.

You may be promised joy as a believer but for priestly purposes anxious, scared believers who're desperate to prove how strong their faith is are much more profitable.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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08-02-2017, 08:32 AM
RE: Help! "Advanced" Pascal's Wager
(07-02-2017 05:37 PM)SylvanAuctor Wrote:  Hi all. I confess I found the forums after finding little atheist help for this question.

In my departure from religion, I always promised myself that if evidence came along to return me to it, I would take it. However, I just recently found a verse I had not read in my 2 year deconversion. Matthew 12:31-2 describes the "unforgivable" or "eternal" (depending on translation) sin. This is called "Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit." I fear to commit this even while disbelieving the Bible.

I was fine taking the atheist position before knowing this verse, but the prospect of being proved wrong and being utterly helpless to change my fate is more terrifying still. What if I find compelling evidence of Christianity the day after committing the sin?

I don't mean to judge anyone else by this, but: It seems arrogant to me to say "I am so certain that Christianity is false that I am willing to cut off all chance of forgiveness if it is right."

Furthermore, Christians are in dispute over what the sin means. My fear is so great that I have stopped collaborating with writers who were my friends, for fear that they would commit the sin in their work and I would share in the guilt.

Can someone help me with this?

If god isn't real, there is nothing to fear.

If the god that made that rule up is real, it's a real dick and doesn't deserve my respect let alone my worship.

If it is some other god that is real and not that one, then that passage doesn't matter anyways.

But I like the summation Hitchens put forth: they can't all be correct, but they can all be wrong. (they = religion)

Pascal's Wager is used to argue for christianity, but it can't possibly do that because it can be used for any religion or any god. In Pascal's wager, there is no way to differentiate between any given god or any given religion, and since many of them are mutually exclusive and all have the same lack of evidence to substantiate their claims, it is infinitely more likely that they are all incorrect.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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08-02-2017, 10:39 AM
RE: Help! "Advanced" Pascal's Wager
(07-02-2017 10:21 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  You would surrender yourself so completely to the idea of a god? Why would you not then instead surrender yourself to the realm of reality? Of what you do know to be true for certain.

Yes religion allows people to have a sense of security and being 'in control' if you went back to religion out of fear instead of belief, then you would commit yourself to a lie, for it would be something you profess to believe in and not be something you actually believed in your heart.

This false belief of paschel's wagers will not save you from the Christian hell. Because it says in their bible that a person can 'sin in their heart' - "if I had cherished sin in my heart, the lord would not have listened"

Already now you have 'blasphemed against god' one pastafarian joke to many. So you're in it to win it now.

*too Drinking Beverage

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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