Help! Climate denying father
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05-01-2017, 09:36 AM
RE: Help! Climate denying father
Looks to be an interesting site for viewing global climate.

http://cci-reanalyzer.org/wx/DailySummary/#T2

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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05-01-2017, 12:32 PM
RE: Help! Climate denying father
(05-01-2017 09:36 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Looks to be an interesting site for viewing global climate.

http://cci-reanalyzer.org/wx/DailySummary/#T2

That is bloody awesome. Smile

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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09-01-2017, 12:17 AM
RE: Help! Climate denying father
(08-12-2016 07:12 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Here's the thing, all the governments of the world and all the scientists of the world are not working together in some grand conspiracy to raise your taxes.

When governments respond to virus outbreaks are they trying to raise your taxes ?
When governments respond to help victims of earthquakes, hurricanes, wild fires, are they doing it to raise your taxes ?

If you look at a chart of the natural rise & fall for CO2 before the industrial age, you see a very steady chart of highs & lows that date back thousands of years.

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This isn't some hoax the world is playing on everyone to raise your fucking taxes.
This is serious and has dire consequences for all life on our planet.

Governments don't need your money to address this problem.
They just need companies to stop polluting the air with greenhouse gases and for our energy sectors to stop burning fossil fuels in order to provide electricity.

We also need to curb our carbon footprint, by changing the type of vehicles we drive.

No one is trying to con you out of anything.
We are just trying to explain to you the reality our planet is facing.

The response to this particular issue was to create a carbon tax as a method of compensating poor countries who did not cause so much pollution and to deter rich pollution creating countries. So, this issue is different because it was promoted by people like Maurice Strong who was a life long supporter of Communist China and chaired the Rio Summit.

There has been a parade of academics testifying at the Senate committee hearings on this because these taxes put a burden on industry in the West while China goes on polluting more than anyone and also undercuts Western businesses with cheap labor and manipulation of its currency. It is very much a political and economic issue whereas cancer research is not.

The point Walter made about raw data is very good. The standard method of measuring climate for weather forecasting in the UK was to place a thermometer in a vented wooden box six feet above grass so the reading reflected air temperature. If you put a thermometer in sunlight or near a reflective surface, it will record a higher temperature. Back when I was a kid, they talked about an impending ice age. Back then there was no internet and technology was not as easy to take to third world countries so it may be that weather recording was done in places where the former British Empire had its influence. Now we can get reports from all over the place and from parts of the world where they may not have the same measuring techniques and have just placed a thermometer in a convenient location. Who knows? You would not have to have the raw data but you would have to look at the way in which the raw data is collected to see if the measuring techniques are the same.

Frankly, I get pretty sick of the ageist comments I get from some family and people I see here. My wife's daughter was sitting in her car in a car park outside a restaurant and said it was 95 degrees F. We are in the Near East but close to the sea so there is always a sea breeze here. I recalled being in Hawaii and experiencing 90+ weather. It is stiffingly hot when it gets to that temperature but here we get weather forecasters telling us its going put to over 105 degrees. The temperature reported out of the Middle East are so high that people would die in a couple of hours and it is at the same latitude as Southern California. I told my daughtr she was nuts and her reading was high because she was sitting in a car in an asphalted car park but I just got this derisive sneer from her. I went home and my thermometer, in the shade, read about 82 F. The problem is that technology for measuring temperature spread to a lot of hot countries which don't use Western techniques, don't know about them, don't study them and don't even have grass! Lol. So, its interesting that we see a sudden rise in temperature averages around the world for a while and then a levelling off.

Here we have a rush to say that we as humans have sufficient knowledge to be able to discern what global temperature change is attributable to us versus sun activity. To say otherwise brings shouts of derision and the usual ad hominems. But do we examine the science and technology of weather recording which depends on a few hundred weather measurements from around the world and which may have changed in approach even over the past twenty or thirty years and certainly over the past 100 years? No.

All I see here is a lot of insulting comments which suggest that anyone over 30 doesn't understand science, and some hockey stick graphs. And many, many statements that "we all know" and "everyone knows", combined with the usual "denier" labelling of anyone who expresses a different view. Hey, I know, stop calling oneself a thinking atheist and call yourself a "God denier". If you don't like that for yourself, then stop using the Nazi equivalence on other people because they are older and have a different, and well supported, scientific view.

It is snowing in the Greek Islands right now with some of the coldest weather in 120 years. No doubt this is the result of global warming. Lol.
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09-01-2017, 01:45 AM
RE: Help! Climate denying father
DB - expressing a different viewpoint is fine. You'll still be wrong and won't be able to justify that viewpoint with evidence, but just like many religious people, lack of evidence doesn't mean anything to you.

And yes, extreme weather events like snow in Greece that hasn't happened in 120 yrs is predicted by the global warming models.

I'm just about 52 years old and I understand the basic chemistry of global warming. I know people young & old who deny science and if you think denying science and denying the existence of a god are the same, then that's a HUGE problem, because they are complete opposites.

You don't get to have a different viewpoint on the facts. You don't get to choose when the battle of 1816 happened. What you can do however is ignore the facts because they don't match your preconceived notions about reality.

Pick something from which you know very well how it works. It could be anything. Something that is well tested, documented and has years of data explaining how it all works.

Then someone comes along and says "But that doesn't match my personal experience, nor does it match my viewpoint about how I think it works."

What do you say to this person ?

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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10-01-2017, 12:46 AM
RE: Help! Climate denying father
(09-01-2017 12:17 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  It is snowing in the Greek Islands right now with some of the coldest weather in 120 years. No doubt this is the result of global warming. Lol.

Energy in the form of heat has been added to a quasi-stable chaotic system, the weather. Floods and droughts, hot weather and cold, wild swings in weather are all results of that.

You are an ignoramus. Drinking Beverage

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-01-2017, 01:08 AM
RE: Help! Climate denying father
WTF did I just read?

Did he just pull a "Senator (R-OK) Jim Inhofe snowball-on-the-Senate-floor"?




"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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10-01-2017, 01:15 AM
RE: Help! Climate denying father
(10-01-2017 12:46 AM)Chas Wrote:  You are an ignoramus. Drinking Beverage

DB is that worst of all idiots, the kind who thinks he's clever Dodgy

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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20-01-2017, 09:23 AM
RE: Help! Climate denying father
Aliza,

Here is some more perspective which your father might like, compressing Earth’s history into a single year. Television physicists like to do this.

The planet has been cruising* along for 31,535,999 seconds. Humans screwed up everything during the 31,536,000th second.

That is a damn powerful species, right up there with doG.

*not in the sense of a nice, relaxing sailboat cruise on the Chesapeake Bay on a beautiful summer day with light winds; more like choppy seas with the occasional storm.

Jesus, if I screwed up my arithmetic (143 years per second), my reputation here is ruined.
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21-01-2017, 10:36 AM
RE: Help! Climate denying father
(09-01-2017 12:17 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  It is snowing in the Greek Islands right now with some of the coldest weather in 120 years. No doubt this is the result of global warming. Lol.
That's like saying Jeter is batting .950, therefore the Yankees must be a great team.
That stat only shows Jeter is doing good, you still have to average in the rest of the team. If everyone else is batting .100, then the Yankees suck no matter how great Jeter is doing at the moment.

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29-01-2017, 04:30 AM
RE: Help! Climate denying father
Climate change denial is prevalent in the USA mainly because you guys still get plenty of snow each winter in certain states, causing the casual individual to wonder what the fuss is about, in southern England we used to get snow every year in the 70's now decent quantities of the white stuff rarely make an appearance. If you had witnessed the changes first hand like we have there would be less of this ridiculous denial.
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