Help! Climate denying father
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03-12-2016, 08:55 AM
RE: Help! Climate denying father
(03-12-2016 08:40 AM)Walter Wrote:  Try celebrating your father’s rational and skeptical thinking.

If he read Michael Crichton’s CalTech lecture, or something of a similar nature, he will probably not open his arms to secular religion.

Climate “science” is like Trinity Broadcasting Network, but without all the singing.

Wow, another level of stupid rears its head Thumbsup

Climate science as a religion Laughat

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03-12-2016, 09:03 AM
RE: Help! Climate denying father
(02-12-2016 04:22 PM)morondog Wrote:  Overfishing = ecological balance fucked. How does more fishing make it sustainable, pray? You're aware that entire fishing industries have ceased to exist because the stocks have been fished out?

One of the biggest problems we'll face (and part of the reason I mentioned the US military's strong interest in climate change) in the immediate future is that wars will begin as people find they are unable to displace en masse as the food and clean water needed to sustain that population becomes harder to get. I hear many people talking about switching to solar and nuclear and other "clean" sources of energy, as though solving our energy problem will solve all our problems. The trouble is that it will only stop the hemorrhaging, not the internal bleeding. To whatever extent the damage is occurring, no serious person argues that it's not occurring, only to what degree (pun intended) and how quickly.

At USAFA, I argued in an essay that we were coming toward the end of the age of Oil Empire Wars (which I said WW2 was largely about), and preparing to enter the age of human resource wars. Some have argued that the genocide in Darfur was the first of these "water wars". Even more interestingly, in the mid-90s a series of fishing fleet conflicts brewed up between EU-and-Iceland-supported Spain against UK/Ireland-supported Canadian naval vessels over the trouble enforcing international restrictions on overfishing. (These were going on at the time, so they were a bigger deal... I don't know if there have been more of this sort since then.)

These are the "quibbles" we're having now, while the ice is still melting and the environment is still absorbing the energy. I genuinely fear what the world will look like when I am trying to explain to my grandchildren how my generation could have fucked it up so badly.

How will I explain terms like "denialist" and "warmist" to them?

Or Yakherder could be right about nuclear proliferation among nations that are rising economically (and with 4 times our population) to compete against the US's global dominance, and I won't have a grandson to explain it to... so that's something.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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03-12-2016, 09:44 AM
RE: Help! Climate denying father
Every time i read "warmist" i am thinking of "evolutionist", and particularly the people who are using those phrases.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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04-12-2016, 10:50 AM
RE: Help! Climate denying father
(27-11-2016 08:00 AM)Aliza Wrote:  I need some help finding videos or short articles about global warming. My father has been brainwashed been swayed by conservative nonsense, and climate denying is the newest thing that he's going on about. Sad

If anyone knows of some YouTube videos or reader-friendly science articles that explain global warming, specifically about ice melt and the impact that this will have on our environment, I would be really appreciative if you could share them here. I tried showing my father the two Vice reports about Greenland and Antarctica, but he refuses to watch them because Bill Maher is the executive producer and therefore the reports are biased (he actually used the word ‘tainted’) Rolleyes

Thank you in advance.

Hi

There are now top scientists coming out and explaining the whole issue, including a Nobel Laureate. Here is what he says:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCy_UOjEir0&t=937s

And here is a video of an MIT meteorologist:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RLPdEMjphM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sHg3ZztDAw
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04-12-2016, 12:11 PM (This post was last modified: 04-12-2016 12:22 PM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: Help! Climate denying father
Ivar Giaever? Oh, FFS, Deltabravo, do you have any good information in your head?

While Giaever is certainly a highly accomplished physicist, that does not automatically make him a climate expert as well. As Giaever himself has admitted, he has spent very little time researching the subject, and it shows. He simply bounces from one climate myth to the next, demonstrating a lack of understanding of Climate Science 101, and then insults the entire scientific field by comparing it to a religion.

Giaever has used his position of scientific authority as a Nobel Laureate to misinform people about a subject on which he has not even done the most basic research. That is not how a good scientist should behave, and that is why Giaever has rightfully and deservedly been criticized.


http://www.skepticalscience.com/ivar-gia...ntist.html

( See also: http://www.snopes.com/2015/07/08/nobel-i...te-change/ )

And Skeptical Science also has a good examination of your "MIT meteorologist" and his pseudoscience:

https://www.skepticalscience.com/skeptic...indzen.htm

Edit to Add: Here's a hint for future reference... before you make an Appeal to Authority, make sure the people you're citing are authorities on the subject. Dodgy

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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04-12-2016, 01:48 PM
RE: Help! Climate denying father
Deltabravo, did you know there are nobel laureates who accept climate change? Why does it matter if that guy is a nobel laureate?
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04-12-2016, 03:57 PM
RE: Help! Climate denying father
As a child my parents took us to Big Rock for a day out now and then. It is 75 miles from the Rocky Mountains and was left behind after the Ice Age. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Rock_(...l_erratic)

It's hard to take this seriously when the whole of the country you live in is under snow for six months of the year, and this is a big improvement from when it was under a hundred feet of ice. I grew up knowing that we were at the end of an ice age. That was in the 50's and 60's and the ice fields and glaciers in Alberta continued to recede and nobody thought anything of it and no one thought it had anything to do with man made heating of the atmosphere.

I suppose if you lived elsewhere in the world and never experienced this, and then saw Antarctica shrinking, you might associate it with human activity but this only started to make the news in the 90's and I just saw it as a continuation of what we witnessed every year we went to Lake Louise, the Columbia Icefield and various other glaciers which kept receding. No one thought anything of it. There isn't a single factory in Banff or the whole of Alberta, the population was tiny and it was plainly and obviously nothing to do with human activity.

Now we have this hysteria.

Just as the ice age came, it could come again...next year, in ten years, 100 years, or we could all fry. And life would go on, or it might not and it would have nothing to do with us. The idea that a major change in climate can be affected by changes in human activity is on the same level as thinking that eating an apple destroyed the Garden of Eden or man's sin caused natural disasters. It's an antihro-centric, superstitious load of horse hooey.

If you listen to the two speakers carefully, you get a really good feel for what is going on. Yes, there has been a rise in temperature, but it can't be said to be statistically significant, or caused by humans.

Have a look at world climate reports on TV. What you notice is that it is always 40+ degrees in places like Saudi Arabia and the Middle East. I live here and it's bloody cold right now, always a cool breeze and it snows in the winter. The temperature readings in a lot of countries like this, which are higher than areas further south is a result of the way they measure temperature. The standard methods for measuring temperatures differ from one place to another. In the UK the standard technique is to put a thermometer in a ventilated box above grass. There's no grass in these new oil rich countries so readings are higher because the thermometers record reflected heat. If you throw into the mix readings from all over the world where meteorological readings are made in different ways, you will get higher readings. You would have to have to know that every thermometer was placed in the same way everywhere and that just isn't possible.

Just on a simplistic level, heat rises. In a house, heat is trapped and rooms heat up. But outside, heat just dissipates upwards and a mile up, it's -70C. The more heat, the higher it goes and it just cools off higher up. Heat doesn't move sideways. Heat just dissipates. It doesn't come back down and heat the ground like heat from a heater in a room. You get heat islands in cities of course, but go a few miles outside and the heat of a city won't be felt at all.

Sorry, but it's just a load of nonsense. We could all be in a deep freeze for fifty years starting next month, due entirely to sun activity and then what would warmest say?

No warmest ever addresses the fact that we have ice ages which are caused by sun activity and that there is absolutely no way on earth we can say whether any change in temperature is caused by sun vs. human activity. It's completely beyond our capabilities.

The skeptical science site just puts bald statements next to what Linden says.

If you want to insult me, first answer how the last ice age came about and why it ended and then explain how anyone can say, with any degree of reliability, how we can know the extent to which any temperature change is caused by natural, sun activity as opposed to man made activity.

As for the idea that this was a Chinese plot, as I have mentioned, I followed Maurice Stong's career because I knew him personally and he admitted in later life that he had a life-long relationship with the Chinese and he hot-footed it to Beijing when he was discovered receiving a multi-million dollar payoff but throughout his career in Canada and in the UN and on the Rio Summit, no one had any idea about that. He was an utter fraud with no education past high school and not a very bright guy. He was a political manipulator and his aunt, Anita Strong, was a known supporter of the Chinese government and his parents were CCF members.

"No CCF Government will rest content until it has eradicated capitalism and put into operation the full programme of socialized planning which will lead to the establishment in Canada of the Co-operative Commonwealth."[11] The party affiliated to the Socialist International.[13]" Wiki

Strong was instrumental in starting the carbon tax credit movement.

Wake up and smell the coffee. You've been had.
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04-12-2016, 04:46 PM
RE: Help! Climate denying father
DB

When we burn wood, coal, gas, (fossil fuels), CO2 is a bi-product from that chemical reaction.
CO2, along with methane in the tundra are greenhouse gases.

Do you understand that when the concentration of CO2 rises, more heat is trapped in our atmosphere ?

For more than 2000 yrs the concentration of CO2 has been relatively stable.
When the industrial revolution took over the world, a great deal of coal, gas & wood (fossil fuels) began to be burned for energy, electricity, automobiles, factories, etc.

That increased production of CO2 that we humans produced has caused more heat to be trapped in the atmosphere.

Do you understand this ?

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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04-12-2016, 05:20 PM
RE: Help! Climate denying father
(04-12-2016 04:46 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Do you understand that when the concentration of CO2 rises, more heat is trapped in our atmosphere ?

They don't "trap heat", they produce heat by absorbing infrared radiation as it leaves the atmosphere. That's why the term "greenhouse gas" is misleading - in a greenhouse heat is trapped by preventing heated air from escaping.

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04-12-2016, 05:25 PM
RE: Help! Climate denying father
(04-12-2016 05:20 PM)Aractus Wrote:  
(04-12-2016 04:46 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Do you understand that when the concentration of CO2 rises, more heat is trapped in our atmosphere ?

They don't "trap heat", they produce heat by absorbing infrared radiation as it leaves the atmosphere. That's why the term "greenhouse gas" is misleading - in a greenhouse heat is trapped by preventing heated air from escaping.

They don't produce heat. You don't know what you're talking about. They absorb outgoing infrared radiation effectively trapping heat that would otherwise radiate out into space. Hence the reason they are called greenhouse gases. Production of heat implies they create the heat but the heat is sourced from terrestrial sources.

So it's not a misleading term, it's a term you don't understand.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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