Help!! Conversation with wife went HORRibly!
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24-02-2018, 09:42 PM
RE: Help!! Conversation with wife went HORRibly!
In the garden of Gethsemane did not Jesus ask, "Why have you forsaken me?" Remind her that even Jesus doubted and questioned God.

At some point she will have to come to grips with your disbelief, she will have to weigh her love for you with her own beliefs. You can smooth the road by being everything she fell in love with (minus the religious aspect).

I wish you much luck.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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25-02-2018, 12:11 AM (This post was last modified: 25-02-2018 12:15 AM by Sexy_Jesus.)
RE: Help!! Conversation with wife went HORRibly!
I know I'm probably not going to say much that you haven't already figured out, but for what it's worth, I've had that conversation too. It didn't go well for me either. I'm still married, happily, to my devoutly Catholic wife. So believe it or not, it is possible to turn this around.
First- and most important- is to do everything you can to make sure she knows you still love her and respect her. You're still the same person you always were, and she needs to see that the detail of how you no longer believe in a god doesn't change how you feel about her. She's likely suffering from a belief- like my wife did- that Atheists are enemies of religion. Carefully consider what your perspective on atheists was, once upon a time. I think most everyone here will agree that those stereotypes aren't true, but she needs to see it for herself. Be there for your kids. Be there for you wife. Even if she's unresponsive for a while. Oh, and two more important things: cutting back on drinking is important, and will be a drastic change that she notices (Who the fuck am I to talk, I'm half a bottle of Booker deep). Second: DO. NOT. TRY. TO. CHANGE. A. WOMAN'S. MIND. WITH. LOGICAL. ARGUMENTS. Not with anything, and especially not with religion. I don't know why, but it just doesn't work. Don't try to change her mind about her god. That can't end well. Quite simply, it is possible to have a happy relationship between a believer and a non- believer, and if you're expecting more than that, shit's going to go down in flames.
Next- it seems as if you're pretty new to this whole 'atheism' thing (and I congratulate you, for making that step). I suggest you stop to ponder what that means for you, and what has changed about your worldview. What is your place in the universe? How do you define morality? What is your source of happiness? What do you actually believe in, if not a god? Science? Deism? It doesn't really matter, as long as you've taken the time to really discover who you are, now that such a large part of your identity has changed. When she's ready, you can share these experiences and what they mean to you.
I think, if she sees that you're happy, and sees that you still love her and your kids, she'll be a little more open to conversation next time, and will feel a little bit less like you're turning on her. At least, that's what worked with my wife, I can't make guarantees. Women are strange creatures, but don't give up on your marriage so quickly.
I wish you all the best.

A Catholic, an Atheist, a Muslim, a Jew, a Hindu, a Baptist, and a Pastafarian all walk into a bar. They chat, drink, laugh, and have a good time. There's no joke to be had. It's what happens when you're not a dick.
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25-02-2018, 01:31 AM
Help!! Conversation with wife went HORRibly!
(24-02-2018 10:40 AM)Commonsensei Wrote:  So your story sounded very close to my own. My wife and I have been together for ruffle 8 years, She is a Christian and I am an Atheist. When we started going out religion and god's weren't really a discussion that we where haveing but when the day came that she did find out I didn't accept her god she reacted very simalery to how your wife reacted. Whenever the topic came up no matter how calmly I would present it she would reacted as if it was a personal attack on her.

However as the years have gone on we've talked a little more openly from time to time making the conversation (slightly) easier to have. So upon reading your post and us being in a simaler position I desided to read it to my wife. I felt that she would give better insist on what was going on from your wife's mind. We had a 3 hour converstation and this is the base line postion of her advice.


SENSEIble:
1: First he needs to do is cut back on the drinking. It's harder to accept a drunks position.

2. Sit down and have a one on one conversation. Do it without the kids around when you have alone time.Explain you understand it's a touchy subject and your fears. Bear your heart reassure her that you still love her and your children. If emotions get heated, remain calm take a break, and say you would like to continue the talk when you can talk and not yell.

3. Find a compromise. Maybe his doesn't go to church on Sundays. But It would be nice to have the family together for Easter and Christmas. Maybe they try different churches to get different worldly perspectives.

4. He needs to know that she's going threw emotional ride right now, and she needs to know Religion doesn't depict the individual.

5. Worse comes to worse. She can talk to me. Set up a time on the forum and we can use the both of your screen names or something to share thoughts.


I know you are a good man (she directed this at me) you take care of me. And are there for me when I need you. Thou you can be an asshole sometimes. Different people have different beliefs but as long as they can see eye to eye on the the majority of values. There's no reason they can't be with each other.


Wanted to thank you for this post cause it allowed me to have a deeper conversation with my wife on the subject matter then we been able to have in the past. How things work out.





Commonsensei, I am a lurker here, and have been for a couple of years. I view and empathize with my selected protagonists and antagonists. Perhaps one day I will intro. But for now I am unable not to say how touched I felt by this post, not only by your wife's amazing participation, but also by your naked honesty and raw realization/admission that in fact this pursuit was beneficial to you personally in your relationship. This is surely encouragement to those reading, those questioning, and those afraid. I have not been afraid in over a decade, and I found myself remembering what it was like to be fearful, and imagined how your words and reflections would have encouraged me. I thank you for taking me back to that time, for helping me to see how I might be encouraging to others; and I am certain there are more that will feel strength through this. My best to you, your wife, and certainly to the OP.

G.



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25-02-2018, 06:23 PM
RE: Help!! Conversation with wife went HORRibly!
"Why do you love an imaginary person more than me, a real person?"

...maybe gussy it up a little.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

Alouette, je te plumerai.
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26-02-2018, 07:59 AM (This post was last modified: 26-02-2018 08:08 AM by BikerDude.)
RE: Help!! Conversation with wife went HORRibly!
I read this and I hear "MAN DOWN!" Like on the battle field.

Face it.
Her head is all the way up her ass.
Live with it or not.
But living with it will involve a lot of nodding and smiling and asking her to get out of the way so you can watch the game on TV.

And I've got news for you.
The churches are full of a shit ton of guys who just don't fucking fight that battle.
Get them alone and they will whisper that it's all bullshit.
But they just don't want to deal with the shit storm of saying that to the ball and chain.
Your mistake was going down that road.
Now you might have to just suck it up and tell her she's right.
Then move on and keep your fucking mouth shut.
Or look for an apartment and get ready to pay child support.
Sound good?
We all live with our little miscalculations.
Eek out some time with you buds for blowing off steam.
Live for that.

Mine knew my beliefs before we got married.
I'm a lost cause.
She and her family faced that years ago.

[Image: barfly_condenados_pelo_vicio.gif]
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26-02-2018, 09:28 AM
RE: Help!! Conversation with wife went HORRibly!
(25-02-2018 06:23 PM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  "Why do you love an imaginary person more than me, a real person?"

...maybe gussy it up a little.

Unfortunately for tjo252810, his wife believes that her god is a real person. And one with more insight and power than her mere mortal husband.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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26-02-2018, 11:44 AM
RE: Help!! Conversation with wife went HORRibly!
Thank you all for the replies, I've read all of them several times!

LOTS to think about moving forward.
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02-03-2018, 09:43 AM
RE: Help!! Conversation with wife went HORRibly!
UPDATE: Some good and bad, but in general the dust has settled quite a bit.

My wife reached out to my (very religious) cousin in town here to contact me to try to talk. I've been putting that off. She also arranged for my mom and dad to watch our children this weekend and wants to go to an "art of marriage" weekend at our church. I may not have a choice in this - if i say "no" it gives the impression I don't want to take time for our marriage, which isn't the case. It's interesting though, as I mentioned she's been kind of a "fringe" Christian and it seems my change has made her double down on her Christianity (not an intended consequence). She was not raised Christian, only since high school. Her mom is only a casual Lutheran.

Some good: We watched one episode of the Leah Remini doc on Scientology (her idea, since I've been "so into religions and stuff lately") and she made many comments of things that reminded her of our last church and pastor! Also, I've had no drinks at all for about 2 weeks and have tried to just be positive and supportive!

That's all for now, I'm gonna just let some time go by and see how this organically works out. No need to push the issue, lest she try to get me re-saved! Hopefully she'll have more questions down the road that'll maybe lead her down a similar path that led me here!

Thank you for being such supportive strangers!
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02-03-2018, 11:32 AM
RE: Help!! Conversation with wife went HORRibly!
First off, awesome on the drinking. Keep that up.
Glad to hear that some things are better. I would go to these discussions as they are an inevitability in an atheists life after they are out, even moreso if you are an apostate. They will try to "fix" you, just accept that. The best ammo I have found is to learn as much counter apologetics as you can so you are more prepared when these inevitable concersations occur. Chances are the people approaching you only know what they have read from apologists who rarely get the counter arguments correct if they even mention them at all.

Go to the thing with your wife and ask lots of questions. You MUST show her you are willing to put in something. That may be a very powerful thing for her to see: your willingness to try and if/when that fails she will have questions. That is precisely what happened to my wife. I did the nonsense that her church and books said and when they all failed, she had no choice but to question why. Like I said before: nothing is more hazardous to religion than a nice, knowledgable atheist. It will frustrate them to no end and you just have to be there.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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02-03-2018, 12:49 PM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2018 12:58 PM by adey67.)
RE: Help!! Conversation with wife went HORRibly!
(25-02-2018 12:11 AM)Sexy_Jesus Wrote:  I know I'm probably not going to say much that you haven't already figured out, but for what it's worth, I've had that conversation too. It didn't go well for me either. I'm still married, happily, to my devoutly Catholic wife. So believe it or not, it is possible to turn this around.
First- and most important- is to do everything you can to make sure she knows you still love her and respect her. You're still the same person you always were, and she needs to see that the detail of how you no longer believe in a god doesn't change how you feel about her. She's likely suffering from a belief- like my wife did- that Atheists are enemies of religion. Carefully consider what your perspective on atheists was, once upon a time. I think most everyone here will agree that those stereotypes aren't true, but she needs to see it for herself. Be there for your kids. Be there for you wife. Even if she's unresponsive for a while. Oh, and two more important things: cutting back on drinking is important, and will be a drastic change that she notices (Who the fuck am I to talk, I'm half a bottle of Booker deep). Second: DO. NOT. TRY. TO. CHANGE. A. WOMAN'S. MIND. WITH. LOGICAL. ARGUMENTS. Not with anything, and especially not with religion. I don't know why, but it just doesn't work. Don't try to change her mind about her god. That can't end well. Quite simply, it is possible to have a happy relationship between a believer and a non- believer, and if you're expecting more than that, shit's going to go down in flames.
Next- it seems as if you're pretty new to this whole 'atheism' thing (and I congratulate you, for making that step). I suggest you stop to ponder what that means for you, and what has changed about your worldview. What is your place in the universe? How do you define morality? What is your source of happiness? What do you actually believe in, if not a god? Science? Deism? It doesn't really matter, as long as you've taken the time to really discover who you are, now that such a large part of your identity has changed. When she's ready, you can share these experiences and what they mean to you.
I think, if she sees that you're happy, and sees that you still love her and your kids, she'll be a little more open to conversation next time, and will feel a little bit less like you're turning on her. At least, that's what worked with my wife, I can't make guarantees. Women are strange creatures, but don't give up on your marriage so quickly.
I wish you all the best.

Good advice bro Yes
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