Help!! Conversation with wife went HORRibly!
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
02-03-2018, 01:01 PM
RE: Help!! Conversation with wife went HORRibly!
(25-02-2018 01:31 AM)gunnarH Wrote:  
(24-02-2018 10:40 AM)Commonsensei Wrote:  So your story sounded very close to my own. My wife and I have been together for ruffle 8 years, She is a Christian and I am an Atheist. When we started going out religion and god's weren't really a discussion that we where haveing but when the day came that she did find out I didn't accept her god she reacted very simalery to how your wife reacted. Whenever the topic came up no matter how calmly I would present it she would reacted as if it was a personal attack on her.

However as the years have gone on we've talked a little more openly from time to time making the conversation (slightly) easier to have. So upon reading your post and us being in a simaler position I desided to read it to my wife. I felt that she would give better insist on what was going on from your wife's mind. We had a 3 hour converstation and this is the base line postion of her advice.


SENSEIble:
1: First he needs to do is cut back on the drinking. It's harder to accept a drunks position.

2. Sit down and have a one on one conversation. Do it without the kids around when you have alone time.Explain you understand it's a touchy subject and your fears. Bear your heart reassure her that you still love her and your children. If emotions get heated, remain calm take a break, and say you would like to continue the talk when you can talk and not yell.

3. Find a compromise. Maybe his doesn't go to church on Sundays. But It would be nice to have the family together for Easter and Christmas. Maybe they try different churches to get different worldly perspectives.

4. He needs to know that she's going threw emotional ride right now, and she needs to know Religion doesn't depict the individual.

5. Worse comes to worse. She can talk to me. Set up a time on the forum and we can use the both of your screen names or something to share thoughts.


I know you are a good man (she directed this at me) you take care of me. And are there for me when I need you. Thou you can be an asshole sometimes. Different people have different beliefs but as long as they can see eye to eye on the the majority of values. There's no reason they can't be with each other.


Wanted to thank you for this post cause it allowed me to have a deeper conversation with my wife on the subject matter then we been able to have in the past. How things work out.





Commonsensei, I am a lurker here, and have been for a couple of years. I view and empathize with my selected protagonists and antagonists. Perhaps one day I will intro. But for now I am unable not to say how touched I felt by this post, not only by your wife's amazing participation, but also by your naked honesty and raw realization/admission that in fact this pursuit was beneficial to you personally in your relationship. This is surely encouragement to those reading, those questioning, and those afraid. I have not been afraid in over a decade, and I found myself remembering what it was like to be fearful, and imagined how your words and reflections would have encouraged me. I thank you for taking me back to that time, for helping me to see how I might be encouraging to others; and I am certain there are more that will feel strength through this. My best to you, your wife, and certainly to the OP.

G.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Two years is enough lurking already. Wink Time to dive in, we don't bite unless you're a total douche. Big Grin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes adey67's post
02-03-2018, 01:08 PM
RE: Help!! Conversation with wife went HORRibly!
Glad to hear that things are going smoother, and that you both are working on improving your relationship. On some level, it's important for you both to realize that you can make this marriage work, even with such different ideas about how the universe works. Either of you being focused on changing the other's mind can only end in disaster.
There's a seminar on youtube that I suggest you watch together; my wife and I watch this every few years. It's a 2 part series called Laugh Your Way to a Better Marriage by Mark Gungor. Yes, he is a minister, so there's still religion involved in the mix (to, thankfully, a very limited extent) but it's still full of good advice and he actually is pretty funny. Here's the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9eOjFWEdvI
Best of luck to you.

A Catholic, an Atheist, a Muslim, a Jew, a Hindu, a Baptist, and a Pastafarian all walk into a bar. They chat, drink, laugh, and have a good time. There's no joke to be had. It's what happens when you're not a dick.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-03-2018, 01:10 PM
RE: Help!! Conversation with wife went HORRibly!
(02-03-2018 09:43 AM)tjo252810 Wrote:  UPDATE: Some good and bad, but in general the dust has settled quite a bit.

My wife reached out to my (very religious) cousin in town here to contact me to try to talk. I've been putting that off. She also arranged for my mom and dad to watch our children this weekend and wants to go to an "art of marriage" weekend at our church.

I think it is only fair to ask her to do the same. You should find a secular counselor and have her join you. What’s good for the goose...

Find an atheist counselor

Secular therapy

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Full Circle's post
02-03-2018, 11:41 PM
RE: Help!! Conversation with wife went HORRibly!
Well dangit, more shit's hit the fan..

She didn't purchase the marriage weekend, said we could just have a nice quiet weekend together (kids are at my mom's). I should've known better... She's upset because I SHOULD HAVE made it happen since she mentioned it, etc. (the marriage weekend)

OH AND BY THE WAY, kids are at my parents' because she filled them in that I'm "struggling" and they agreed I "need some time" to sort things out.

Whole thing feels like an intervention..

This sucks.

I found a Wednesday night group that meets I'm trying to get to, to talk more face to face......... Until then thanks for reading my venting! Sad
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-03-2018, 04:52 AM
RE: Help!! Conversation with wife went HORRibly!
(02-03-2018 11:32 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  The best ammo I have found is to learn as much counter apologetics as you can so you are more prepared when these inevitable concersations occur.

I don't agree with this advice.

(02-03-2018 11:41 PM)tjo252810 Wrote:  Well dangit, more shit's hit the fan..

She didn't purchase the marriage weekend, said we could just have a nice quiet weekend together (kids are at my mom's). I should've known better... She's upset because I SHOULD HAVE made it happen since she mentioned it, etc. (the marriage weekend)

OH AND BY THE WAY, kids are at my parents' because she filled them in that I'm "struggling" and they agreed I "need some time" to sort things out.

Whole thing feels like an intervention..

This sucks.

I found a Wednesday night group that meets I'm trying to get to, to talk more face to face......... Until then thanks for reading my venting! Sad

The first thing is to figure out what you believe, so that you can articulate it. Not so you can argue your case, or present apologetics, but so when you are faced with the question "what do you believe" or "why don't you believe" you can explain your new beliefs about the world. If they say something like "those are just doubts" what I would say to that, if it were me that is and you'll need to work out your own answer, "no they are not doubts - you're a protestant because you doubt the Catholic doctrine: that's how you are literally viewed by the majority of the world's Christians. Just as you don't define your beliefs by doubt in someone else's, I don't define mine by doubts about your beliefs." And then go on to explain what your beliefs are. It's also why you need to be able to explain what you believe without relying on "well I don't believe in Yahweh" you could be a Hindu and say that, you could be a Scientologist, you could Wiccan.

My Blog
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-03-2018, 05:12 AM
RE: Help!! Conversation with wife went HORRibly!
tjo,

I've come late to this important thread; sorry to hear about your struggle.

My 2p, gently stated, is that we just can't argue with a convinced Christian. Your wife already mentioned the 'evil' and that is where the issue will stick. So the choice IMHO is damage limitation and buying time. Your wife is the same person you married, and she will be fearing that you have changed.

Pretending that you are still a Christian, but struggling in your own faith, will convince her that the problem is about you and not about her, and that is where you buy some time. I am assuming that there is no way that your wife is going to go atheist, so that time is where you can work out a strategy. There are no end of folk who go to church, sing the songs, but don't believe. I think much of Europe has been doing it for centuries.

Also, once you have settled in to a strategy that works on the surface, you can still have a guilt free drink now and then.

I'm sure that millions have lived this way, hard as it sounds just now.

Best of luck,

D.

PS - When challenged by your wife or relatives, you can just say "I don't know" and that might be the truth?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-03-2018, 05:41 PM
RE: Help!! Conversation with wife went HORRibly!
(03-03-2018 04:52 AM)Aractus Wrote:  
(02-03-2018 11:32 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  The best ammo I have found is to learn as much counter apologetics as you can so you are more prepared when these inevitable concersations occur.

I don't agree with this advice.

Out of curiosity, why not? Knowing the arguments from both sides only can assist as I see it.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-03-2018, 06:14 PM
RE: Help!! Conversation with wife went HORRibly!
(02-03-2018 11:41 PM)tjo252810 Wrote:  Well dangit, more shit's hit the fan..

She didn't purchase the marriage weekend, said we could just have a nice quiet weekend together (kids are at my mom's). I should've known better... She's upset because I SHOULD HAVE made it happen since she mentioned it, etc. (the marriage weekend)

OH AND BY THE WAY, kids are at my parents' because she filled them in that I'm "struggling" and they agreed I "need some time" to sort things out.

Whole thing feels like an intervention..

This sucks.

I found a Wednesday night group that meets I'm trying to get to, to talk more face to face......... Until then thanks for reading my venting! Sad

It is unfortunate that your marriage seems to depend on mutually agreed upon metaphysics. That does not seem like a prudent basis to form or ground a long term partnership on to me. ManlyGirl is still a good Catholic school girl who dresses up in her High School uniform for me on special occasions, and I'm still the same heathen who told her from the gitgo some 35 years ago now that it may look like it at first, but be assured that this ride ain't on no upwardly mobile freeway, this is the road to Hell. She replied, "Shut up and let's roll, fatboy." ... My only advice to you is find some solid common ground for your marriage which is not as feeble and flimsy as common metaphysical grounds. Sex is a good place to start in my experience.

There is but one truly serious philosophical problem. - Camus
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes GirlyMan's post
03-03-2018, 07:20 PM
RE: Help!! Conversation with wife went HORRibly!
(03-03-2018 06:14 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(02-03-2018 11:41 PM)tjo252810 Wrote:  Well dangit, more shit's hit the fan..

She didn't purchase the marriage weekend, said we could just have a nice quiet weekend together (kids are at my mom's). I should've known better... She's upset because I SHOULD HAVE made it happen since she mentioned it, etc. (the marriage weekend)

OH AND BY THE WAY, kids are at my parents' because she filled them in that I'm "struggling" and they agreed I "need some time" to sort things out.

Whole thing feels like an intervention..

This sucks.

I found a Wednesday night group that meets I'm trying to get to, to talk more face to face......... Until then thanks for reading my venting! Sad

It is unfortunate that your marriage seems to depend on mutually agreed upon metaphysics. That does not seem like a prudent basis to form or ground a long term partnership on to me. ManlyGirl is still a good Catholic school girl who dresses up in her High School uniform for me on special occasions, and I'm still the same heathen who told her from the gitgo some 35 years ago now that it may look like it at first, but be assured that this ride ain't on no upwardly mobile freeway, this is the road to Hell. She replied, "Shut up and let's roll, fatboy." ... My only advice to you is find some solid common ground for your marriage which is not as feeble and flimsy as common metaphysical grounds. Sex is a good place to start in my experience.

You are a very wise man, GirlyMan. Very wise indeed.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-03-2018, 08:16 PM
RE: Help!! Conversation with wife went HORRibly!
(03-03-2018 05:41 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  Out of curiosity, why not? Knowing the arguments from both sides only can assist as I see it.

Because it's not going to be advantageous for him to start arguments with everyone he knows. Let's take one argument, for example, one that is pretty much settled within most of New Testament scholarship outside of the most Evangelical of Seminaries - The Bible is a human book. It's not a book by God, it's a book written by humans. To most Catholics that's probably obvious. But to everyday practising church-going protestants, they're often acutely acutely aware that men and women in the Middle Ages gave their lives and became martyrs to get the Bible into the hands of the laity. That's in a way not that different to the apostles who became martyrs to spread the gospel (the good news about their Lord Jesus Christ being resurrected).

Let me tell you, as a former Anglican, that your convictions in this grow even stronger when you talk to Roman Catholics who deny that people were persecuted for possessing Bibles. They come up with the most inventive of responses - "well it wasn't that they couldn't have Bibles, it's that they had bad translations". That's nothing more than a slur. The reality is that it was a universally held belief among theologians throughout the Middle Ages that heretics should be persecuted, and a layperson possessing a Bible was a heresy.

You don't need to learn counter-apologetics to be able to articulate your own beliefs. You only need to learn it if you wish to attack others for their beliefs. And may counter-apologetic arguments are no more sound then the apologetic arguments anyway. You're much better off learning what modern historical-critical bible scholars have to say about things. For example, there's an excellent peer-review paper I read last week by Christopher Zeichmann titled "The Date of Mark’s Gospel Apart from the Temple and Rumors of War: The Taxation Episode (12:13–17) as Evidence". He makes, in my view, a compelling case to show that the Taxation Episode (Mk 12:13-17) was invented by Mark rather than reflecting a genuine teaching of Jesus, and that it likely refers to a tax the Romans imposed in 71 AD and therefore cannot be written down before that date.

My Blog
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: