Help Mojch Not Put His Foot In His Mouth
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26-05-2013, 11:33 AM
RE: Help Mojch Not Put His Foot In His Mouth
(26-05-2013 11:24 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(26-05-2013 11:18 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  He wasn't "voluntarily" killed.
a. He was (supposedly) "sent" to do just that. If the "Father" willed it, he had no choice.
b. He was executed because he was a common crook, and disrupted the Pax Romana, and the execution was done via a "standing order". There was nothing "voluntary" about it. There was no trial. (The trials in the gospels obviously were cooked up, and totally contradict each other. No Galilean peasant was afforded a trial before Roman aristocrats).
c. A system of "debts"/"payments" to an ancient pissed-off deity, that *requires* a payment is a system to which the deity is bound, and subject to .. thus the deity is not the creator of a Reality to which it is bound.
d. It proves the deity is also subject to a temporal dimension, (space-time), as AFTER the sacrifice/atonement, the deity was "appeased", (therefore changed), and NOT "eternal", and "timeless". THAT is no deity.
e. All anthropomorphic projected BS.

Besides, a benevolent god would have found a different way. Having one's own son die of torture is a bit harsh - and that's an understatement. Why didn't god just forgive stuff and leave it at that? And what is he forgiving? Oh yeah, we are all born sinners... little babies are just reeking with sin!

Which is why it is a kindness to barbecue and consume them. Yes

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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26-05-2013, 12:41 PM (This post was last modified: 26-05-2013 03:10 PM by kim.)
RE: Help Mojch Not Put His Foot In His Mouth
(26-05-2013 11:24 AM)Dom Wrote:  Besides, a benevolent god would have found a different way. Having one's own son die of torture is a bit harsh - and that's an understatement. Why didn't god just forgive stuff and leave it at that? And what is he forgiving? Oh yeah, we are all born sinners...
Well, god likes a good trick; I am my own son.
One doesn't just nail up some random hippy like a post-it note, this has to look to be as complete a "sacrifice" as there can ever be. WE are the hippy; that child is US. It is HUMANITY who nails ourselves up when WE sacrifice that part of ourselves TO the greater part of US: Our Father.
HONOR THY FATHER YOU PRODIGAL SON. FORGIVE YOURSELF.

Frankly, it all might have been taken care of with a visit... maybe a nice dinner ... but no, we don't talk anymore, you never call me!
god --> Weeping Laughat <-- innocent bystander random hippy atheist son

The following may or may not be relevant statements:
All sons hate their fathers and the resentment still clings even after they find they've become their father.
It's A Man's World... and/or... that's what they want you to think... or so I've been advised.
I don't always draw or paint for anyone but myself - it's cool if someone else likes it but that's not really the point or even why I do it.
Poetry doesn't have to make sense to anyone but the poet and even then "making sense" may not have anything to do with the poem.

(26-05-2013 11:24 AM)Dom Wrote:  little babies are just reeking with sin!
Duh. Dodgy
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Trying to "figure out" a work of fiction and debate it's minutia to the point of epically, historical masturbation is a fascinating puzzle which is pertinent enough to command my attention for all of 9.3 seconds of my entire existence. I'd really rather do absolutely anything else. I'm gonna go pull up kitty pics now. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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27-05-2013, 04:26 PM
RE: Help Mojch Not Put His Foot In His Mouth
(26-05-2013 12:41 PM)kim Wrote:  I'm gonna go pull up kitty pics now. Shy

Lemme help ya, there...

[Image: kitten-gun.jpg]
[Image: 3qk4mp.jpg]
[Image: 0_cat_tounge_965824_270x203.jpg]
[Image: basement-cat.jpg]

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27-05-2013, 08:48 PM
RE: Help Mojch Not Put His Foot In His Mouth
(25-05-2013 09:16 AM)Dom Wrote:  You believe in evolution? Nothing to believe there, it's all facts, proven and documented facts.

Is not perceiving something as "fact" the same as "believing" it?
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27-05-2013, 08:59 PM
RE: Help Mojch Not Put His Foot In His Mouth
(27-05-2013 08:48 PM)fat cat Wrote:  
(25-05-2013 09:16 AM)Dom Wrote:  You believe in evolution? Nothing to believe there, it's all facts, proven and documented facts.

Is not perceiving something as "fact" the same as "believing" it?

the english language is not very precise so it is best to be as clear as possible when dealing with things like this.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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28-05-2013, 07:39 AM
RE: Help Mojch Not Put His Foot In His Mouth
(27-05-2013 08:48 PM)fat cat Wrote:  
(25-05-2013 09:16 AM)Dom Wrote:  You believe in evolution? Nothing to believe there, it's all facts, proven and documented facts.

Is not perceiving something as "fact" the same as "believing" it?

No. Evidence is reproducible, that makes them facts. Please don't confuse belief with acceptance of evidence.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-05-2013, 02:16 AM
RE: Help Mojch Not Put His Foot In His Mouth
Well, "believe" has more than one definition. I was referring to the physical act which occurs in our brains when I asked if they were the same. The way I understand perception, we can "believe" both fact and fiction.

Also, even "reproduced" evidence is a one-time occurrence, though abstractions persist.
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