Help find source for this or post some lores about Jesus[interesting ones]
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13-05-2017, 07:10 PM
RE: Help find source for this or post some lores about Jesus[interesting ones]
Here's some interesting Jesus lore for you. Giving birth is one of the most dangerous things a woman can do, especially in the era that the character, Jesus, was said to have been born. Had a woman named Mary done something as incredibly stupid as try to travel from Nazareth to Bethlehem (it's a 69 mile trip) by donkey in her 9th month of pregnancy, when she arrived in Bethlehem, the inn would have had space for her. Why? Because someone would have given up their bed to help a laboring woman deliver her child. It's a mitzvah.

Oh, and the census thing is bullshit too. None of it fits in with Jewish law, or custom. The whole thing is bullshit.
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13-05-2017, 08:00 PM
RE: Help find source for this or post some lores about Jesus[interesting ones]
(13-05-2017 07:10 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Here's some interesting Jesus lore for you. Giving birth is one of the most dangerous things a woman can do, especially in the era that the character, Jesus, was said to have been born. Had a woman named Mary done something as incredibly stupid as try to travel from Nazareth to Bethlehem (it's a 69 mile trip) by donkey in her 9th month of pregnancy, when she arrived in Bethlehem, the inn would have had space for her. Why? Because someone would have given up their bed to help a laboring woman deliver her child. It's a mitzvah.

Oh, and the census thing is bullshit too. None of it fits in with Jewish law, or custom. The whole thing is bullshit.

I always wondered about that. What kind of an innkeeper would make a woman give birth out in a barn with the cows and chickens?

Edit to add a question: What's a mitzvah? Sounds like something to eat.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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13-05-2017, 10:19 PM (This post was last modified: 13-05-2017 10:27 PM by Aliza.)
RE: Help find source for this or post some lores about Jesus[interesting ones]
(13-05-2017 08:00 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(13-05-2017 07:10 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Here's some interesting Jesus lore for you. Giving birth is one of the most dangerous things a woman can do, especially in the era that the character, Jesus, was said to have been born. Had a woman named Mary done something as incredibly stupid as try to travel from Nazareth to Bethlehem (it's a 69 mile trip) by donkey in her 9th month of pregnancy, when she arrived in Bethlehem, the inn would have had space for her. Why? Because someone would have given up their bed to help a laboring woman deliver her child. It's a mitzvah.

Oh, and the census thing is bullshit too. None of it fits in with Jewish law, or custom. The whole thing is bullshit.

I always wondered about that. What kind of an innkeeper would make a woman give birth out in a barn with the cows and chickens?

Edit to add a question: What's a mitzvah? Sounds like something to eat.

It wasn't just the innkeeper who was guilty... it was every guest at the inn as well, and everyone in the entire town of Bethlehem who refused or failed to offer shelter to a laboring woman. Really? Like news didn't travel that a woman was in labor and didn't have a place to stay, and not a single person was willing to sleep on the sofa that night?

The New Testament Christian testament is pretty much as anti-Semetic as it comes. (Sorry, Shai. This is where the gloves come off). It seems to be written by a fledgling church that is trying to cut ties with it's Jewish roots. Like a rebellious teenager, it badmouths its parent to try to prove its own autonomy.

What group of people leaves someone to die on the side of the road? The Jews. What group of people changes money at the temple? The Jews. Who calls non-Jews dogs? The Jews Jesus... who was said to have been a Jew. Who drags pregnant women on a life-threateningly dangerous vacation? The fucking Jews, and the who makes her deliver her baby in a barn? The Jews.

(And then they're baffled why we're the only group of people they've been unable to hypnotize and convert.)

A mitzvah, by the way, is a Jewish law. It's a loose term that means a lot of things and is used in a lot of ways. It can also mean a good deed. It's a mitzvah to keep a kosher diet. It's a mitzvah to be honest in business. It's a mitzvah to help a little old lady across the street. ...It's also a mitzvah to wash your hands before eating a meal. It means a lot of things.

Imagine that our lives are like a bank account. Judaism doesn't work like Christianity, in that we don't start with a negative balance and no one is trying to keep us in the negative. For each good thing we do, each mitzvah that is, we get credit in our account. Once the credit is added, it can't be taken away. Of course, we can lower our balance by screwing up, but then we can do mitzvahs to counteract the negative balance and bring ourselves back into the green. Different mitzvahs have different values. remembering to check your vegetables for bugs is a mitzvah! Yay for you for not eating bugs and worms. Giving to charity is a mitzvah! Double yay for you for contributing to the betterment of your community and ensuring that the elderly, disabled, widows and children have their needs met.

Saving or preserving a life is the top tier of mitzvahs. Therefore, helping a human deliver another human, thereby increasing their chances of success, is a huge mitzvah.

What kind of horrible, selfish, monstrous human being do you have to be to deny a warm safe room to woman in the throes of labor?

... Right. The Christian Bible tells us very clearly. You'd have to be a Jew. Dodgy
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13-05-2017, 11:20 PM
RE: Help find source for this or post some lores about Jesus[interesting ones]
I know right? Fuckin' Jews Tongue




I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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14-05-2017, 05:04 AM
RE: Help find source for this or post some lores about Jesus[interesting ones]
(13-05-2017 10:19 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(13-05-2017 08:00 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I always wondered about that. What kind of an innkeeper would make a woman give birth out in a barn with the cows and chickens?

Edit to add a question: What's a mitzvah? Sounds like something to eat.

It wasn't just the innkeeper who was guilty... it was every guest at the inn as well, and everyone in the entire town of Bethlehem who refused or failed to offer shelter to a laboring woman. Really? Like news didn't travel that a woman was in labor and didn't have a place to stay, and not a single person was willing to sleep on the sofa that night?

The New Testament Christian testament is pretty much as anti-Semetic as it comes. (Sorry, Shai. This is where the gloves come off). It seems to be written by a fledgling church that is trying to cut ties with it's Jewish roots. Like a rebellious teenager, it badmouths its parent to try to prove its own autonomy.

What group of people leaves someone to die on the side of the road? The Jews. What group of people changes money at the temple? The Jews. Who calls non-Jews dogs? The Jews Jesus... who was said to have been a Jew. Who drags pregnant women on a life-threateningly dangerous vacation? The fucking Jews, and the who makes her deliver her baby in a barn? The Jews.

(And then they're baffled why we're the only group of people they've been unable to hypnotize and convert.)

A mitzvah, by the way, is a Jewish law. It's a loose term that means a lot of things and is used in a lot of ways. It can also mean a good deed. It's a mitzvah to keep a kosher diet. It's a mitzvah to be honest in business. It's a mitzvah to help a little old lady across the street. ...It's also a mitzvah to wash your hands before eating a meal. It means a lot of things.

Imagine that our lives are like a bank account. Judaism doesn't work like Christianity, in that we don't start with a negative balance and no one is trying to keep us in the negative. For each good thing we do, each mitzvah that is, we get credit in our account. Once the credit is added, it can't be taken away. Of course, we can lower our balance by screwing up, but then we can do mitzvahs to counteract the negative balance and bring ourselves back into the green. Different mitzvahs have different values. remembering to check your vegetables for bugs is a mitzvah! Yay for you for not eating bugs and worms. Giving to charity is a mitzvah! Double yay for you for contributing to the betterment of your community and ensuring that the elderly, disabled, widows and children have their needs met.

Saving or preserving a life is the top tier of mitzvahs. Therefore, helping a human deliver another human, thereby increasing their chances of success, is a huge mitzvah.

What kind of horrible, selfish, monstrous human being do you have to be to deny a warm safe room to woman in the throes of labor?

... Right. The Christian Bible tells us very clearly. You'd have to be a Jew. Dodgy

Good point about the pervasive racist undertones of the story, I think the writers were also creating a narrative about a messiah that would have humble beginnings and did not go along with the privileged class, but was part of the lower rungs of society.

This theme persists with the Jesus character into his adulthood as his disciples were all common and uneducated people as well as outcasts.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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14-05-2017, 09:40 AM
RE: Help find source for this or post some lores about Jesus[interesting ones]
(13-05-2017 10:19 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(13-05-2017 08:00 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I always wondered about that. What kind of an innkeeper would make a woman give birth out in a barn with the cows and chickens?

Edit to add a question: What's a mitzvah? Sounds like something to eat.

It wasn't just the innkeeper who was guilty... it was every guest at the inn as well, and everyone in the entire town of Bethlehem who refused or failed to offer shelter to a laboring woman. Really? Like news didn't travel that a woman was in labor and didn't have a place to stay, and not a single person was willing to sleep on the sofa that night?

The New Testament Christian testament is pretty much as anti-Semetic as it comes. (Sorry, Shai. This is where the gloves come off). It seems to be written by a fledgling church that is trying to cut ties with it's Jewish roots. Like a rebellious teenager, it badmouths its parent to try to prove its own autonomy.

What group of people leaves someone to die on the side of the road? The Jews. What group of people changes money at the temple? The Jews. Who calls non-Jews dogs? The Jews Jesus... who was said to have been a Jew. Who drags pregnant women on a life-threateningly dangerous vacation? The fucking Jews, and the who makes her deliver her baby in a barn? The Jews.

(And then they're baffled why we're the only group of people they've been unable to hypnotize and convert.)

A mitzvah, by the way, is a Jewish law. It's a loose term that means a lot of things and is used in a lot of ways. It can also mean a good deed. It's a mitzvah to keep a kosher diet. It's a mitzvah to be honest in business. It's a mitzvah to help a little old lady across the street. ...It's also a mitzvah to wash your hands before eating a meal. It means a lot of things.

Imagine that our lives are like a bank account. Judaism doesn't work like Christianity, in that we don't start with a negative balance and no one is trying to keep us in the negative. For each good thing we do, each mitzvah that is, we get credit in our account. Once the credit is added, it can't be taken away. Of course, we can lower our balance by screwing up, but then we can do mitzvahs to counteract the negative balance and bring ourselves back into the green. Different mitzvahs have different values. remembering to check your vegetables for bugs is a mitzvah! Yay for you for not eating bugs and worms. Giving to charity is a mitzvah! Double yay for you for contributing to the betterment of your community and ensuring that the elderly, disabled, widows and children have their needs met.

Saving or preserving a life is the top tier of mitzvahs. Therefore, helping a human deliver another human, thereby increasing their chances of success, is a huge mitzvah.

What kind of horrible, selfish, monstrous human being do you have to be to deny a warm safe room to woman in the throes of labor?

... Right. The Christian Bible tells us very clearly. You'd have to be a Jew. Dodgy

Heart I'd like to give you about likes for that post, Aliza, but I'm not allowed.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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14-05-2017, 10:16 AM (This post was last modified: 14-05-2017 11:51 AM by sea_tiger.)
RE: Help find source for this or post some lores about Jesus[interesting ones]
Hi Aliza,Shy

(13-05-2017 07:10 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Oh, and the census thing is bullshit too. None of it fits in with Jewish law, or custom.

It was a Roman census.

What are Jewish views on:
- demons[Jesus drove out demons]
-angels
-ghosts
-satan
-miracle works of Jesus
-reincarnation
-Heaven & hell
[sorry for long list]
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14-05-2017, 11:05 AM
RE: Help find source for this or post some lores about Jesus[interesting ones]
(14-05-2017 10:16 AM)sea_tiger Wrote:  Hi Aliza,Shy

[q]Oh, and the census thing is bullshit too. None of it fits in with Jewish law, or custom.[/q]
It was a Roman census.

What are Jewish views on:
- demons[Jesus drove out demons]
-angels
-ghosts
-satan
-miracle works of Jesus
-reincarnation
-Heaven & hell
[sorry for long list]

So really… the census is a plot device written into the story to get their character, Jesus, to Bethlehem, and make it appear that he fulfilled a supposed prophecy (that they misunderstood anyway). So they come up with this spectacularly stupid story about needing the entire population to return to their ancestral homes to take a census.

The story of Jesus was likely based on a real person who was known to be from the town of Nazareth… the writers of the NT, being poorly educated in Hebrew and Jewish teachings, thought that the messiah would have to be from Bethlehem.

Why would Romans care about their citizen’s ancestral homes? Bear in mind, the ancestral home of the House of David was established 1,000 years prior. And why would the Romans have been interested in the ancestral homeland that dates back specifically back to 1000 years? Why not the ancestral homes of the tribes, which makes much more sense because all Jews have a tribe, but only some Jews have a famous house, and only some houses have land, and only one house was established 1,000 years ago, and it’s only that house that people cared about after the fact.

Doesn’t it make more sense that the Romans, had they been conducting a census that year (and history says they were not conducting a census) would have been more interested in where they need to send municipal services at that time, rather than checking up on who is from what land 1,000 years prior? If they want to know that information, can’t they just ask when they take the census, “hey what house or tribe are you from? We’re curious?” If they’ve got 1,243 people living in Nazareth, don’t they need to know how many people live in Nazareth so they can send the proper amount of soldiers, tax collectors and government representatives to keep 1,243 people in check?

If Bethlehem has a population of 4,564 people normally, and has a population of 10,382 or 100,364 or 1,486,392 people (or however many it was) for that particular census, then doesn’t it make sense that the Roman government would be sending municipal services to the wrong location? And now, can’t people lie about where they live just to fuck with the Romans? The Romans have no idea where these people actually live because they didn’t knock on the door of their house to know where they live or who they actually are.

Where the fuck did the Samaritans go during the census? What about the Romans? Did they also have to return to their ancestral home of specifically 1,000 years ago to be counted, pregnant women, elderly people, small children and all? What if they don't know their ancestral lands? This story is so incredibly stupid that it makes me angry. Does this make any sense at all to anyone who can string two thoughts together? Is there any instance throughout the whole of history where we can point to a known governing body who has physically send people to their ancestral homes 30 generations back to determine an accurate, useful count of the population?

The whole story is a poorly designed plot device written in to make their character, Jesus, fit a prophecy that they mistranslated. It makes no sense... not from a Jewish perspective, and not from a secular perspective, and I'm not even sure how the Christians are swallowing that crap except that they've probably been so brainwashed that they'll buy anything. The Jewish messiah will not need to be from the city of Bethlehem. He’ll have to be from Beit Lechem, House of Bread, which is King David’s house lineage. It’s a blood line.
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14-05-2017, 11:19 AM
RE: Help find source for this or post some lores about Jesus[interesting ones]
(14-05-2017 11:05 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(14-05-2017 10:16 AM)sea_tiger Wrote:  Hi Aliza,Shy

[q]Oh, and the census thing is bullshit too. None of it fits in with Jewish law, or custom.[/q]
It was a Roman census.

What are Jewish views on:
- demons[Jesus drove out demons]
-angels
-ghosts
-satan
-miracle works of Jesus
-reincarnation
-Heaven & hell
[sorry for long list]

So really… the census is a plot device written into the story to get their character, Jesus, to Bethlehem, and make it appear that he fulfilled a supposed prophecy (that they misunderstood anyway). So they come up with this spectacularly stupid story about needing the entire population to return to their ancestral homes to take a census.

The story of Jesus was likely based on a real person who was known to be from the town of Nazareth… the writers of the NT, being poorly educated in Hebrew and Jewish teachings, thought that the messiah would have to be from Bethlehem.

Why would Romans care about their citizen’s ancestral homes? Bear in mind, the ancestral home of the House of David was established 1,000 years prior. And why would the Romans have been interested in the ancestral homeland that dates back specifically back to 1000 years? Why not the ancestral homes of the tribes, which makes much more sense because all Jews have a tribe, but only some Jews have a famous house, and only some houses have land, and only one house was established 1,000 years ago, and it’s only that house that people cared about after the fact.

Doesn’t it make more sense that the Romans, had they been conducting a census that year (and history says they were not conducting a census) would have been more interested in where they need to send municipal services at that time, rather than checking up on who is from what land 1,000 years prior? If they want to know that information, can’t they just ask when they take the census, “hey what house or tribe are you from? We’re curious?” If they’ve got 1,243 people living in Nazareth, don’t they need to know how many people live in Nazareth so they can send the proper amount of soldiers, tax collectors and government representatives to keep 1,243 people in check?

If Bethlehem has a population of 4,564 people normally, and has a population of 10,382 or 100,364 or 1,486,392 people (or however many it was) for that particular census, then doesn’t it make sense that the Roman government would be sending municipal services to the wrong location? And now, can’t people lie about where they live just to fuck with the Romans? The Romans have no idea where these people actually live because they didn’t knock on the door of their house to know where they live or who they actually are.

Where the fuck did the Samaritans go during the census? What about the Romans? Did they also have to return to their ancestral home of specifically 1,000 years ago to be counted, pregnant women, elderly people, small children and all? What if they don't know their ancestral lands? This story is so incredibly stupid that it makes me angry. Does this make any sense at all to anyone who can string two thoughts together? Is there any instance throughout the whole of history where we can point to a known governing body who has physically send people to their ancestral homes 30 generations back to determine an accurate, useful count of the population?

The whole story is a poorly designed plot device written in to make their character, Jesus, fit a prophecy that they mistranslated. It makes no sense... not from a Jewish perspective, and not from a secular perspective, and I'm not even sure how the Christians are swallowing that crap except that they've probably been so brainwashed that they'll buy anything. The Jewish messiah will not need to be from the city of Bethlehem. He’ll have to be from Beit Lechem, House of Bread, which is King David’s house lineage. It’s a blood line.

Like, like, like, like, like, like, ikea...oops... like, like, like, like!

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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14-05-2017, 11:38 AM
RE: Help find source for this or post some lores about Jesus[interesting ones]
(14-05-2017 10:16 AM)sea_tiger Wrote:  What are Jewish views on:
- demons[Jesus drove out demons]
-angels
-ghosts
-satan
-miracle works of Jesus
-reincarnation
-Heaven & hell
[sorry for long list]

demons – We don’t have demons. Christians came up with that stuff.
angels – We have angels. They’re like G-d’s robots with really good AI. They do what they're programmed to do and they don't have free will.
ghosts – Judaism has room for the concept of ghosts, but we don’t mess with that stuff. You’ll notice only the homes that ever seem to get haunted are the homes of people who already believe in ghosts. The ghosts that I think you’re referring to are all your head. Christianity is all about demons and crap, so it makes sense that it's always the Christian homes that get "haunted."
satan – Satan is like that university professor who was a fucking dick and made the tests too hard. When you go to talk to him after class, you find out that your studying payed off and the professor was actually really impressed with your ability to triumph over the challenge he gave you. At the end, the professor is rooting for your success and must answer to the dean. In Judaism, Satan works for G-d and because Jews view G-d as being in charge, it doesn’t make sense to us that Satan can rise up against G-d.
miracle works of Jesus – What miracles? The Torah clearly tells us that a person may appear to be a prophet, that he may be a Jew, and he may be able to perform wonders. If he tells us to change one word of Torah or divert from our path, we’re not to follow him. We’re to take his ass out back and stone him. Jesus got his just desserts in the end.
reincarnation – Judaism has room for reincarnation.
Heaven & hell – Judaism doesn’t traditionally have a concept of heaven and hell, but we teach that we all go to the same place when we die. We’ll have to go through a spiritual cleansing of sorts, and that might suck, but it’ll be no longer than 13 months (not eternal). Its suckiness is dependent on your actions when you were alive, not on the things you thought in your head. We don’t have a solid concept of heaven, but what things we do think do not match anything Christianity has come up with. We generally believe that the messianic era will come, good people (Jews and non-Jews) will be resurrected, and we’ll enjoy the fruits of our labor, living in a Utopian society that humans created and perfected over thousands of years.)
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