Help me debate with this Theist!
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15-06-2016, 07:57 AM
Help me debate with this Theist!
So, she started that she believes in God and also believes in evolution. She said because evolution does not contradict God's existence. I said the Earth with 6000 years old already contradicts evolution because evolution happened in millions and billions of years, not thousands. She then said the books in the bible were written YEARS apart, she meant millions. Since Adam and Eve lived for 800-900 years and human nowaday live about 80 years old, it's a evidence of evolution. I asked what gave the bible enough credit to be used as a evidence? She said she has other evidence, it's science. She talked about blue eyes that is extremely rare and we have so many. There must be incest involved. And so on. At this point I took screenshot (we used snapchat) and she said I was not being respectful and she said she's done talking. I said I took screenshot because I would do research about it and ask for more opinion because I know I still don't have enough experience to debate alone. I said it's not just me and her, it's about atheist and theist, so it's ok if I ask for other atheist's thoughts on this. She said ok I have until evening. So... help!


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15-06-2016, 08:05 AM
RE: Help me debate with this Theist!
(15-06-2016 07:57 AM)toantranhhs Wrote:  So, she started that she believes in God and also believes in evolution. She said because evolution does not contradict God's existence. I said the Earth with 6000 years old already contradicts evolution because evolution happened in millions and billions of years, not thousands. She then said the books in the bible were written YEARS apart, she meant millions. Since Adam and Eve lived for 800-900 years and human nowaday live about 80 years old, it's a evidence of evolution. I asked what gave the bible enough credit to be used as a evidence? She said she has other evidence, it's science. She talked about blue eyes that is extremely rare and we have so many. There must be incest involved. And so on. At this point I took screenshot (we used snapchat) and she said I was not being respectful and she said she's done talking. I said I took screenshot because I would do research about it and ask for more opinion because I know I still don't have enough experience to debate alone. I said it's not just me and her, it's about atheist and theist, so it's ok if I ask for other atheist's thoughts on this. She said ok I have until evening. So... help!

This person is not ready to debate evolution. She is not informed enough. Tell her you feel embarassed for her and don't wish to watch her make more of a fool of herself.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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15-06-2016, 08:18 AM
RE: Help me debate with this Theist!
[/quote]
This person is not ready to debate evolution. She is not informed enough. Tell her you feel embarassed for her and don't wish to watch her make more of a fool of herself.
[/quote]

It would not convince her though. You know how Theists want answer for arguement they bring up. And also, we are friends so I can't leave it there.
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15-06-2016, 08:36 AM
RE: Help me debate with this Theist!
(15-06-2016 07:57 AM)toantranhhs Wrote:  So, she started that she believes in God and also believes in evolution. She said because evolution does not contradict God's existence. I said the Earth with 6000 years old already contradicts evolution because evolution happened in millions and billions of years, not thousands. She then said the books in the bible were written YEARS apart, she meant millions. Since Adam and Eve lived for 800-900 years and human nowaday live about 80 years old, it's a evidence of evolution. I asked what gave the bible enough credit to be used as a evidence? She said she has other evidence, it's science. She talked about blue eyes that is extremely rare and we have so many. There must be incest involved. And so on. At this point I took screenshot (we used snapchat) and she said I was not being respectful and she said she's done talking. I said I took screenshot because I would do research about it and ask for more opinion because I know I still don't have enough experience to debate alone. I said it's not just me and her, it's about atheist and theist, so it's ok if I ask for other atheist's thoughts on this. She said ok I have until evening. So... help!

If she accepts evolution, ask her when the soul was infused into the early humans. We know that there are other creatures of the Homo genus that overlapped with Homo sapiens so at what point was the soul infused? Her response should be interesting.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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15-06-2016, 08:45 AM
RE: Help me debate with this Theist!
This person is not ready to debate evolution. She is not informed enough. Tell her you feel embarassed for her and don't wish to watch her make more of a fool of herself.
[/quote]

It would not convince her though. You know how Theists want answer for arguement they bring up. And also, we are friends so I can't leave it there.
[/quote]

But this person literally doesn't know enough about evolution to be in a debate. Tell her that even if she could falsify the entire TOE it would not prove that her God exists. It's a non-sequitur. It's a pointless debate.

Even if evolution were false, we still have no alternative but the imagination when trying to apprehend her God. Ask her how you can reliably distinguish what she is calling "God" from something she is merely imagining. You see this is a constant tactic of theists, to take the attention off of their imaginary God and put it onto their opponents ideas. The secret to debating theists is to keep bringing the discussion back to their beliefs and the means by which they are aware of their God. Ask her if she is aware of her God by direct perception? If she says yes, ask her by what sensory means she is aware of it. If she says she just feels it or appeals to some inner sence, ask her how you can distinguish this inner sense from her imagination. If she says that she instead infers its existence, ask her what her starting point is. If she says nature or the universe, ask her how she can infer the supernatural from observing the natural. This is a valid question and one the theist has a responsibility to answer. When we look out at the world we see only natural, finite, corruptible, imperfect things. How then does she infer the supernatural, infinite, incorruptible and perfect from this? Ask her to show you the steps of logic she made to get to something that contradicts everything we observe about existence. Don't let her shift the discussion back to evolution or the Big Bang or anything else. These are my suggestions.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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15-06-2016, 09:27 AM
RE: Help me debate with this Theist!
(15-06-2016 07:57 AM)toantranhhs Wrote:  So, she started that she believes in God and also believes in evolution. She said because evolution does not contradict God's existence. I said the Earth with 6000 years old already contradicts evolution because evolution happened in millions and billions of years, not thousands. She then said the books in the bible were written YEARS apart, she meant millions. Since Adam and Eve lived for 800-900 years and human nowaday live about 80 years old, it's a evidence of evolution. I asked what gave the bible enough credit to be used as a evidence? She said she has other evidence, it's science. She talked about blue eyes that is extremely rare and we have so many. There must be incest involved. And so on. At this point I took screenshot (we used snapchat) and she said I was not being respectful and she said she's done talking. I said I took screenshot because I would do research about it and ask for more opinion because I know I still don't have enough experience to debate alone. I said it's not just me and her, it's about atheist and theist, so it's ok if I ask for other atheist's thoughts on this. She said ok I have until evening. So... help!

Blue eyes are dominant if I remember right. Boy, she is right on schedule. "I'm done talking with you" since you're "not respectful". Another common tactic with theists when their arguments are shot down is to get angry and blame the non-believer because he is not "respectful" or "open minded" or "just doesn't want to believe" or "just wants to sin and be unaccountable". You see it's our fault that they can't defend their position rationally.

Tell her you expect more from adults than the temper tantrums of a child.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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15-06-2016, 09:34 AM
RE: Help me debate with this Theist!
(15-06-2016 07:57 AM)toantranhhs Wrote:  I said the Earth with 6000 years old already contradicts evolution because evolution happened in millions and billions of years, not thousands. She then said the books in the bible were written YEARS apart, she meant millions.

Humans didn't exist millions of years ago. We've only been around for one or two hundred thousand. The second book in the Bible talks about the Egyptians. This would either mean she believes the Egyptian society existed millions of years ago, or that millions of years separated Genesis and Exodus. Also, the genealogies of Jesus are listed in the New Testament. Even with people living for hundreds of years, there's no way you get from Adam to Jospeh in a million years.

It sounds like she's kicking around some variation of the day-age theory for explaining old Earth creationism, but she hasn't thought out all of the consequences.


(15-06-2016 07:57 AM)toantranhhs Wrote:  Since Adam and Eve lived for 800-900 years and human nowaday live about 80 years old, it's a evidence of evolution.

She might have a point if this didn't abruptly stop right after Noah and the flood. It's very explicitly listed in Genesis that this happened.


(15-06-2016 07:57 AM)toantranhhs Wrote:  So, she started that she believes in God and also believes in evolution. She said because evolution does not contradict God's existence.

Technically speaking, it's not, but there are easier ways for her to reconcile her beliefs. Rather than assert that the Bible was written over the course of millions (!) of years, she can just say that some parts of the Bible are allegorical. Sure, that raises some hard questions, but those are a lot easier to deal with than telling people that the Bible was written millions of years before humans existed.
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15-06-2016, 09:51 AM
RE: Help me debate with this Theist!
Your friend seems to lack even the most basic concept of the evolutionary process. You really can't debate that person any more than you can have a meaningful conversation about foreign affairs or the national economy with a 4 year old.

Recommend a few documentaries to your friend and offer to watch something in return as an act of good will. Tell your friend that if they have actual questions about real science, you'll do your best to explain why scientists know what they know.
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16-06-2016, 03:34 PM
RE: Help me debate with this Theist!
Direct her to Francis Collins and BioLogos. Tell her to read so that she may understand Evolutionary Creationism or Theistic Evolution. Her concept is neither theologically nor scientifically coherent.

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16-06-2016, 03:58 PM
RE: Help me debate with this Theist!
Recessive genes such as blue eyes get passed on from parents. As much as it saddens me to say, but our ancestors had a history of rape, and incest. Small tribes, royal blood lines, people trying to make the "Master Race" can all play into having an effect. A discovery made 3 years ago found a hunter-gather man in spain threw genetic test that was found to have Blue eyes.

A 7,000 year old skeleton. Uh-oh. Buh buh the earth only existed for 6,000 years how is that possible?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/...very-gene/

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