Help me debate with this Theist!
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16-06-2016, 04:00 PM
RE: Help me debate with this Theist!
Aliza is correct. You cannot debate uneducated people. All you can do is point them to material so they can become educated.

Do you have debates about how your car engine functions ?
Nope

Any debates about how airplanes fly ?

All you can do is educate.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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16-06-2016, 06:34 PM
RE: Help me debate with this Theist!
You really are trying to debate with somebody that's a short step up from "Evolution 'cuz of fairies" here. The best that you can do is point them at a few resources and hope that they learn something.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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16-06-2016, 09:00 PM (This post was last modified: 16-06-2016 09:14 PM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: Help me debate with this Theist!
Technically, she's right. Things like blue eyes did grow to be more common because, when they emerged, there was a small enough population at that location to spread rapidly through that gene pool. It doesn't have anything to do with Adam & Eve or any such crap, of course. It just means that when you live in a tribe of hunter-gatherers or a small, remote village in harsh northern climates, there just aren't that many other gene-sets to dilute it back out of existence. The phenomenon is known as a "genetic bottleneck".

The thing about blue eyes, though, is that it's not really a gene, in the traditional sense-- it's a malfunctioning of one of three major gene sets, which interrupts the normal sequence of "make melanin", "transport melanin to the eyes", "implant melanin in the iris". Since it causes no evolutionary drag on the individual who gets it (and may, if sexually selected for, be beneficial), the "broken" gene gets passed right along as a new gene.

Regardless of her weird reasoning for thinking the earth is millions of years old, she does seem to think that. If you want to talk about science with her (assuming she still wants to), I would point her to BioLogos, as KC recommended, so she can understand evolution from her fellow Believers, and not feel threatened by an atheist "out to destroy her beliefs".

Edit to Add: Blue eyes aren't unique to Europeans. There are African populations that have bright blue eyes. Since the original settlers of Europe were black-skinned ("whiteness" didn't emerge until as recently as 8,000-10,000 years ago) for the first 2/3rds of the time H. sapiens lived there, it's possible that the gene went north with the original settlers, long before pale skin and finer hair evolved.

Second Edit: I looked it up; turns out that in 2008 a researcher in Copenhagen traced the origin of the gene to 8000 years ago in the northern-shore area of the Black Sea, and the version that appears in African populations is a different set of genes (related, somehow to a genetic defect that can cause deafness). So apparently, blue eyes in Europeans emerged about the same time as white skin. Neato!

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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16-06-2016, 09:24 PM (This post was last modified: 16-06-2016 09:42 PM by jennybee.)
RE: Help me debate with this Theist!
If a theist is reading Genesis as a myth or story filled with symbolism and not as "fact" then I can see how they can "believe" in both evolution and God at the same time. But read literally, Genesis does not line up with science or evolution. Genesis has man being created out of dust or clay and woman being created out of rib. Like man/woman, all animals are made in a day's time, and are physically made "as is." Read literally, the Bible is talking about God creating everything in six days, resting on the seventh. Some theists like to say that this is really longer periods of time and not a traditional week, however elsewhere (Exodus 20:8-11) in the Bible it makes mention that man works six days, rests on the seventh as God did when creating existence.

If a theist is deciding not to take Genesis literally and take it as symbolism--then why are we being punished for a symbolic sin? Why did God allow the horrific execution of his son over a symbolic sin?

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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