Help me find this guy's fallacies
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19-03-2014, 03:02 PM
RE: Help me find this guy's fallacies
Hello there mam. So I see you have a problem on this subject. Seeing as how he brings this up I can help you refute this seeing as how everybody else already pointed out the fallacy. The reason why animals aren't as smart as humans is because, you guessed it there is no benefit for them. Being smart has its upsides but also its downsides. For example, being hyper intelligent make are metabolizim much higher then those animals who are dumber. Also the fact that some times brawn does beat brain. For some animals like snakes, having a stronger body is better then a bigger brain, seeing as snakes eat large animals. Other animals don't need it. Sponges have no need seeing as they don't move at all and that they are filter feeders.

http://humanorigins.si.edu/human-characteristics/brains

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19-03-2014, 03:41 PM
RE: Help me find this guy's fallacies
(19-03-2014 03:02 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  Hello there mam. So I see you have a problem on this subject. Seeing as how he brings this up I can help you refute this seeing as how everybody else already pointed out the fallacy. The reason why animals aren't as smart as humans is because, you guessed it there is no benefit for them. Being smart has its upsides but also its downsides. For example, being hyper intelligent make are metabolizim much higher then those animals who are dumber. Also the fact that some times brawn does beat brain. For some animals like snakes, having a stronger body is better then a bigger brain, seeing as snakes eat large animals. Other animals don't need it. Sponges have no need seeing as they don't move at all and that they are filter feeders.

http://humanorigins.si.edu/human-characteristics/brains
Sometimes I look at my dog and think I'm really the dumb one. Dogs befriended humans. That was smart. That means I have to work my butt of all week every week to support the house, food, etc. that my dog soaks up the comfort in. She gets free food, free love, and free shelter just for being cute, playful, and not messing up the house too much. Smile

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19-03-2014, 06:50 PM
RE: Help me find this guy's fallacies
(19-03-2014 03:41 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(19-03-2014 03:02 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  Hello there mam. So I see you have a problem on this subject. Seeing as how he brings this up I can help you refute this seeing as how everybody else already pointed out the fallacy. The reason why animals aren't as smart as humans is because, you guessed it there is no benefit for them. Being smart has its upsides but also its downsides. For example, being hyper intelligent make are metabolizim much higher then those animals who are dumber. Also the fact that some times brawn does beat brain. For some animals like snakes, having a stronger body is better then a bigger brain, seeing as snakes eat large animals. Other animals don't need it. Sponges have no need seeing as they don't move at all and that they are filter feeders.

http://humanorigins.si.edu/human-characteristics/brains
Sometimes I look at my dog and think I'm really the dumb one. Dogs befriended humans. That was smart. That means I have to work my butt of all week every week to support the house, food, etc. that my dog soaks up the comfort in. She gets free food, free love, and free shelter just for being cute, playful, and not messing up the house too much. Smile

You also must remember that dogs work for humans as well. Original dogs hunted for humans, but now they are also used for hunting, find lost people, find dangerous substances, and guarding homes.

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] ♪僕は恐怖の一定した状態に住んで、不幸、逃すもう?僕は、それはもう痛いときも気づかないと
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19-03-2014, 07:00 PM (This post was last modified: 19-03-2014 08:01 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Help me find this guy's fallacies
False. Some animal had to be the top of the chain. It happens to be us.
Dolphins, Bobobo apes, some birds, and other animals ARE intelligent, and have emotional lives also. He just doesn't know any Biology.
The general trend of Evolution is towards more complex and more intelligent organisms.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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19-03-2014, 07:34 PM
RE: Help me find this guy's fallacies
Evolution is directionless, there is no end plan, no goal.
It is incorrect to assume that intelligence is a higher form of evolution that other attributes such as speed or strength or long tongues or standing on finger tips (horses) or flight...

Cheetas are fast because the antelope that they eat are fast, the slower cheetas died out due to hunger, the faster ones lived and procreated.
Antelope are fast because the cheetas that eat them are fast, the slower ones were eaten the faster ones lived and procreated.
Over the generations they just got faster and faster.

Flowers are attractive to bees because bees selected the attractive ones to continue to breed, the unattractive ones died out.

It is difficult to even understand how to evaluate intelligence
http://www.sciencedaily.com/articles/h/h...igence.htm

Humans probably became intelligent due to necessity, they were slow and weak and thus had to be smart to survive. there are may theories
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_o...telligence
But no doubt, according to evolution there was a phase or several phases in human history where the less intelligent humans died and the more intelligent ones survived and procreated. There were also other bipedal primate species around e.g. Neanderthals.
We competed against them and they lost.
With evolution there is the concept of adaptive spaces where an environmental niche is filled by an adapted life form. Once one species becomes dominant in that niche it becomes harder for other competing species to take hold in that niche.
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19-03-2014, 07:56 PM
RE: Help me find this guy's fallacies
(19-03-2014 06:50 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  
(19-03-2014 03:41 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Sometimes I look at my dog and think I'm really the dumb one. Dogs befriended humans. That was smart. That means I have to work my butt of all week every week to support the house, food, etc. that my dog soaks up the comfort in. She gets free food, free love, and free shelter just for being cute, playful, and not messing up the house too much. Smile

You also must remember that dogs work for humans as well. Original dogs hunted for humans, but now they are also used for hunting, find lost people, find dangerous substances, and guarding homes.

It may be more likely that dogs originally acted acted as guards or early warning systems.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-03-2014, 10:30 PM
RE: Help me find this guy's fallacies
(19-03-2014 02:43 PM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  
(19-03-2014 02:40 PM)Charis Wrote:  I'm watching this discussion too, as I've used that guy's very same reasoning (I cringe in shame at my recollection of it) and want to hear its counter.

Don't worry. All of us former theists have cringeworthy things in our past. I once said the "It's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" line. Blush Weeping

But Steve is my best friend! Sadcryface

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20-03-2014, 07:57 AM
RE: Help me find this guy's fallacies
I'd probably go with a combination of these two responses.

(19-03-2014 01:36 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  1. False dilemma (I say x must happen, x did not happen therefore y)
2. Argument from ignorance (there are, in fact, other intelligent species such as octopi and other primates)
3. It's survival of the fittest, not survival of the smartest (nor strongest)
(19-03-2014 02:51 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Evolution goes in whatever direction it goes. There is no guarantee of any specific trait (such as intelligence) developing. Any "we would expect to see" statement shows a lack of understanding about evolution.

Also, for that matter, simply ask him why he asserts his premise. It sounds like an assumption he's making that he can't back up. It's likely based on some bad reasoning (probably Im_Ryan's second counter: argument from ignorance) leading to his first counter (false dilemma).
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20-03-2014, 08:18 AM
RE: Help me find this guy's fallacies
Thanks for all the replies again Smile

Sadly, he answered today, proving to me that he didn't understand a word I told him.

"I asked the same thing in another forum and an evolutionary biologist (he gave me the link and the "evolutionary biologist" happens to be a person I know and is nothing more than a translator Laugh out load ) told me that science still has questions to be answered. She didn't try and justify herself and talk about octopi and dolphins. You should learn by people like this and not be so arrogant in your belief in the lie of evolution."

That's all he said. I asked him why he hasn't gone to pick up his Nobel prize yet since he has so much evidence against evolution Drinking Beverage

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20-03-2014, 08:30 AM
RE: Help me find this guy's fallacies
(20-03-2014 08:18 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  Thanks for all the replies again Smile

Sadly, he answered today, proving to me that he didn't understand a word I told him.

"I asked the same thing in another forum and an evolutionary biologist (he gave me the link and the "evolutionary biologist" happens to be a person I know and is nothing more than a translator Laugh out load ) told me that science still has questions to be answered. She didn't try and justify herself and talk about octopi and dolphins. You should learn by people like this and not be so arrogant in your belief in the lie of evolution."

That's all he said. I asked him why he hasn't gone to pick up his Nobel prize yet since he has so much evidence against evolution Drinking Beverage

Facepalm

Yup, there it is. Science doesn't have all the answers, therefore GOD.

Show him this clip.





"If that's how you want to invoke your evidence for god, then god is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance."

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

"Let me give you some advice, bastard: never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you." - Tyrion Lannister
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