Help me out with this dumbass teacher
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01-04-2017, 02:00 PM
RE: Help me out with this dumbass teacher
Quote:Can you teach me what is historically accurate about Jesus and what is not, specially about the deal of resurrection, with sources if possible?

Nothing. He's a character in a novel. History has no record of him at all.

Read Richard Carrier's "On The Historicity of Jesus" for all the info you would ever need.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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01-04-2017, 04:04 PM
RE: Help me out with this dumbass teacher
(01-04-2017 11:40 AM)Jokurix Wrote:  Since Easter is coming, he recently spoke to us about Jesus' resurrection. I told him I didn't believe in it, to what he responded "It doesn't matter if you believe in it or not, the historic fact is there".

"It's easy to make up nonsense about someone coming back from the dead, and to get ignorant people to believe it just by spreading fairy tales. I believe that if there ever was a Jesus, the Romans just threw him into a mass grave with the other people they executed, and that's where he is to this day."

I'm sorry, but your beliefs are much too silly to take seriously. Got anything else we can discuss?
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01-04-2017, 04:22 PM
RE: Help me out with this dumbass teacher
Ask him to assign homework to the entire class so everyone can research all the historical records about jesus. Nothing can come from the bible. It must all be from other authors that witnessed first hand the resurrection.

Then once everyone has gathered all their historical research, we'll put it all on a timeline banner out in the hallway for everyone to read.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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01-04-2017, 04:26 PM
RE: Help me out with this dumbass teacher
(01-04-2017 04:22 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Ask him to assign homework to the entire class so everyone can research all the historical records about jesus. Nothing can come from the bible. It must all be from other authors that witnessed first hand the resurrection.

Then once everyone has gathered all their historical research, we'll put it all on a timeline banner out in the hallway for everyone to read.

That sounds like you want me to get murdered by my own classmates Laughat
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01-04-2017, 05:30 PM
RE: Help me out with this dumbass teacher
(01-04-2017 04:26 PM)Jokurix Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 04:22 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Ask him to assign homework to the entire class so everyone can research all the historical records about jesus. Nothing can come from the bible. It must all be from other authors that witnessed first hand the resurrection.

Then once everyone has gathered all their historical research, we'll put it all on a timeline banner out in the hallway for everyone to read.

That sounds like you want me to get murdered by my own classmates Laughat
The problem here is the observer effect. Everyone will know who is grading the lesson and what the teacher thinks are "correct" answers. The whole thing could well backfire.

Back when I was in high school (graduated in 1974) what was always top-of-mind for me wasn't "what is the correct answer", it was, "what is the person who will decide my grade fishing for"?
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01-04-2017, 06:16 PM
RE: Help me out with this dumbass teacher
From page 275 of Carrier's On the Historicity of Jesus:

Quote:All other non-Christian extrabiblical sources do not say anything substantially different from known Christian literature, and therefore (being
also late) cannot be established as independent. And some of it doesn't even exist (contrary to it often being cited as if it does). Accordingly, I will include only the earliest examples. These begin with the Jewish Antiquities of Josephus, completed in or shortly after 93 CE, the extant text of which contains two references to Jesus. Next is a letter of Pliny the Younger written around 1 12 cE about his interrogation of some local Christians in what is now northern Turkey. Then a passage in the Annals of Tacitus (about the Neronian persecution at Rome in the year 64), completed around 1 16 CE. Then a passage in the Lives of the Caesars of Suetonius, completed around I 19 CE, about a certain 'Chrestus' instigating a riot in Rome, whom some take to mean Christ. And finally an alleged reference in the Histories of Thallus, which is undatable with any certainty but probably comes from the late second century (as I will discuss in § 1 1 of the next chapter). Every
other author is much too late to be relevant---Celsus, Lucian and Mara bar
Serapion, e.g., all wrote in the 150s or later, and no other non-Christian text
mentioning Jesus predates them. That's it. That's all there is.

He then proceeds to take even that handful of "sources" apart. They are bullshit invented by embarrassed xtians who couldn't find their god boy in history so they invented some.

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01-04-2017, 07:02 PM
RE: Help me out with this dumbass teacher
(01-04-2017 05:30 PM)mordant Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 04:26 PM)Jokurix Wrote:  That sounds like you want me to get murdered by my own classmates Laughat
The problem here is the observer effect. Everyone will know who is grading the lesson and what the teacher thinks are "correct" answers. The whole thing could well backfire.

Back when I was in high school (graduated in 1974) what was always top-of-mind for me wasn't "what is the correct answer", it was, "what is the person who will decide my grade fishing for"?

Ugh, this is why I disliked classes like English so much. I realized there was no point giving my opinion on anything, I had to just parrot back to the teacher what their opinion was. It's why I much preferred maths and science where there were actual correct answers.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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01-04-2017, 08:28 PM
RE: Help me out with this dumbass teacher
(01-04-2017 11:40 AM)Jokurix Wrote:  Hi!


What's up, since everybody always asks for some context and questions like "Where do you study?" I'm just gonna lay some context here.

This happens in:
- Brussels, Belgium.
- Last year of high school.
- Catholic School (although religious symbols are banned).
- We have a religion subject.

What I want, basically, is some defensive help from you guys. Specially about history.

You see, ever since September, this teacher has proved to me that he's a complete blind dumbass.

- First day of class he asks out if there's any atheists, from which only I raise my hand fearlessly. Ever since that day he always tries to find a way to put me in a spotlight through his dumb preaching questions.
- I've had about 6 religion subject teachers, none of these previous ones put me on a spotlight, they teach comparative religion and speak about justice/morals without even tying it to God.
- He has made very outrageous claims (like ladies who supposedly saw Mary and as doctors tried to put syringes in them and the needles broke magically)

Generally I always try to defend my position and say bullshit to his claims, but his favorite argument is interrupting me by saying "no" twice and then spewing baseless BS. Since that day I try not to even argue with him, but he keeps questioning me specifically.

On some things, I'm not big, like history. Since Easter is coming, he recently spoke to us about Jesus' resurrection. I told him I didn't believe in it, to what he responded "It doesn't matter if you believe in it or not, the historic fact is there". I almost said "Why don't you tell yourself that about evolution?", but I don't have knowledge of the historicity of Jesus and he'd dismiss whatever I say anyway.

But still, I want to know about this. My teacher spoke about us having records of Pontius Pilate executing him, that there were people who witnessed his death after he got stabbed by a spear and then saw him back alive...

Can you teach me what is historically accurate about Jesus and what is not, specially about the deal of resurrection, with sources if possible?

The only record of the "historic fact" is the claims made in the Bible. If he refers to the Bible story just tell him that that is the claim that he has been called to validate and that simply repeating the claim does not help in doing that. A claim can not be evidence for its own truth.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

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The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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01-04-2017, 08:38 PM (This post was last modified: 01-04-2017 08:42 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Help me out with this dumbass teacher
Matthew says hundreds of others also rose with him, rocks were split, and the temple curtain was torn. Yet no one ever thinks these astounding events are special enough to mention. Really ? What happened to all these people, the curtain, the rocks, the openedd graves ? Why did not one Jewish historian mention all this, even though they talk about all sorts of other mundane things ? Why didn't the Romans or the Jews mount a search for someone they found important enough to execute ? BTW, the Sanhedrin never once, in all of history, was called into session on Preparation Day, (it was Passover weekend). Not once.

In every "sighting" there were those who did not "recognize" him ... which is a clue. Jewish "shades" were not recognizable, but in a more metaphorical sense, "recognition" was more like saying "oh I get it", (a *mental change* or *seeing differently*). "Resurrection" has been mis-translated. "Being raised up" is *exaltation* (not bodily physical rising from the dead), which is what happened to Jewish Apocalyptic heroes.
See Bart Ehrman's
http://www.amazon.com/How-Jesus-Became-G...0061778184 , or
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...other-look

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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01-04-2017, 09:08 PM
RE: Help me out with this dumbass teacher
(01-04-2017 01:57 PM)ImFred Wrote:  If he singles you out and tries to bully you from his position don't allow it. Use volume and rudeness. Ridicule him. Tell him he worships a zombie and that makes him a fucking moron. Stand up. Don't try to outsmart him. Out shithead the fucker.

If he wasn't using his position unfairly to his advantage to single you out for ridicule and silencing I would never recommend uncivil discourse. But in this case I say throw it back in his face ten fold. Shock him.

I would just ask quietly "Why are you bullying me ?"
He'll get the message.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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