Help me train
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31-08-2013, 09:55 PM
RE: Help me train
Quote:My point on the Big Bang is not to prove God, it's to demonstrate that you can't disprove God.

I also can't disprove Allah, or Vishnu. Why don't you believe in them? Muslims and Hindus seem pretty faithful in them. An argument from ignorance is a rather annoying fallacy.

Quote:Further, scientists leading theory on the creation of everything, the big bang sounds very much like a super natural thing, ie God, creating everything.

The Big Bang is not a creation theory as it is often confused to be; rather, it is theory explaining why our universe is expanding. It is not known at the moment where the matter came from originally, but some scientists say that it could have been the compressed form of a previous universe.

Quote:Also, just because scientists don't know now doesn't mean they will in the future.
And maybe they don't know because they're looking at it wrong, aka; it was God.

Perhaps scientists will not know in the future, but it does little good to merely sit around pretending to know how the universe started. Also, I'm sure you may give the stereotypical answer of "God is beyond eternity," but I must ask you anyway; where did God come from, in order to create the universe?


Quote:As far as I can tell they were only able to form increasingly more complex structures. I don't see how this relates to living organisms.
Further, God created life because the bible tells us so.

Smaller forms of life, such as the cell, are actually little more than structures, albeit somewhat complex structures. Once more, you return to the notion that the Bible is a good source of information. Whence does this conclusion appear?

Quote:Because Joseph Smith was a douche.
Again, it's fraud just fraud in any other thing. Take a conspiracy theory for example, how do you know Big Foot doesn't exist? There's that famous footage of the shadowy figure, how do you know that isn't real?
You know because the shadowy figure is a shadowy figure.. it's obvious it's a fake.
Same difference.

I'm afraid that it is not in fact, the "same difference." Merely because Joseph Smith was a "douche" in your opinion, doesn't seem like a reason to dismiss his claims. As I recall, many of the protagonists in the Bible were quite "douchey" to use your term. Did not Elisha curse the 42 children with being torn by she-bears? (I am not sure how the gender of the bears is very important information.) The claim of Bigfoot's existence requires more solid evidence than a shadowy picture a man in an ape suit. The Book of Mormon states that Joseph Smith saw an angel, the Bible says that an angel appeared before Mary/Joseph (Depending on which gospel is correct, if either are), and the Qur'an states that an angel appeared before Muhammad. Why believe any claims?

Quote: The "purpose of life is to create more life" isn't a purpose. That's like saying I'm going to the store and back and not actually going into the store but just drive there and back. There's no meaning behind simply reproducing.


As I attempted, apparently unsuccessfully, to explain to you, is that there isn't a "purpose" in the way you seem to be phrasing the word. Biologically, reproduction is the way of species adding more members of their species, passing on genes, and ultimately evolving to survive better than the competition from other species. There isn't a "purpose" to this in the same way there isn't a "purpose" for gravity.

Quote:Without God there are no morals.

Which morals? The ones which God apparently ordered the Israelites to obey in his laws? By that logic, it is perfectly moral to stone to death anyone who is Gay, Transgender, doesn't obey the voice of their father, steals any small pebble, doesn't cry out loud enough when raped in the city, etc. Also by that logic, it is perfectly fine to own slaves, take a female prisoner of war for your wife against her will, and conduct human sacrifice.
Animals have a form of morality; watching piranhas in a tank, eating meat, will show an observer that they do not attack each other at all. This is because killing another piranha is problematic for the population of the species winning the battle of survival. It for this reason that humans feel a concept of right and wrong. You don't want to kill someone because our instincts tell us to keep the species alive. It is due to these impulses to be "moral," that society has invented the concept of prison and capital punishment; to reaffirm the human instinct to survive, and prolong survival.

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01-09-2013, 05:55 PM
RE: Help me train
Quote:I also can't disprove Allah, or Vishnu. Why don't you believe in them? Muslims and Hindus seem pretty faithful in them. An argument from ignorance is a rather annoying fallacy.

1) Fraud, just like Mormonism. It's not the true faith.
2) Allah is just the Arab word for God, it's all the same God.

Quote:The Big Bang is not a creation theory as it is often confused to be; rather, it is theory explaining why our universe is expanding. It is not known at the moment where the matter came from originally, but some scientists say that it could have been the compressed form of a previous universe.

And this previous universe came from where?

Quote:Perhaps scientists will not know in the future, but it does little good to merely sit around pretending to know how the universe started. Also, I'm sure you may give the stereotypical answer of "God is beyond eternity," but I must ask you anyway; where did God come from, in order to create the universe?

God is a super natural being. He was simply always there.
And in response to your inevitable response that matter could have just always been there, than that implies it is a super natural being with God like properties and furthers my argument.

Quote:Smaller forms of life, such as the cell, are actually little more than structures, albeit somewhat complex structures. Once more, you return to the notion that the Bible is a good source of information. Whence does this conclusion appear?

Because God wrote the bible through man.

Quote:I'm afraid that it is not in fact, the "same difference." Merely because Joseph Smith was a "douche" in your opinion, doesn't seem like a reason to dismiss his claims. As I recall, many of the protagonists in the Bible were quite "douchey" to use your term. Did not Elisha curse the 42 children with being torn by she-bears? (I am not sure how the gender of the bears is very important information.) The claim of Bigfoot's existence requires more solid evidence than a shadowy picture a man in an ape suit. The Book of Mormon states that Joseph Smith saw an angel, the Bible says that an angel appeared before Mary/Joseph (Depending on which gospel is correct, if either are), and the Qur'an states that an angel appeared before Muhammad. Why believe any claims?

All other forms of religion are fraud, they are not the true religion.
God has outlined for us the true religion written in the bible.
The fact some nut job from the 1800's who wears magic underwear claims to talk to angels doesn't disprove the one true religion.
And how do I know it's the one true religion? Because it says so in the bible (I assume).

Quote:As I attempted, apparently unsuccessfully, to explain to you, is that there isn't a "purpose" in the way you seem to be phrasing the word. Biologically, reproduction is the way of species adding more members of their species, passing on genes, and ultimately evolving to survive better than the competition from other species. There isn't a "purpose" to this in the same way there isn't a "purpose" for gravity.

But gravity doesn't have a conscious, it's just a force.

Quote:Which morals? The ones which God apparently ordered the Israelites to obey in his laws? By that logic, it is perfectly moral to stone to death anyone who is Gay, Transgender, doesn't obey the voice of their father, steals any small pebble, doesn't cry out loud enough when raped in the city, etc. Also by that logic, it is perfectly fine to own slaves, take a female prisoner of war for your wife against her will, and conduct human sacrifice.
Animals have a form of morality; watching piranhas in a tank, eating meat, will show an observer that they do not attack each other at all. This is because killing another piranha is problematic for the population of the species winning the battle of survival. It for this reason that humans feel a concept of right and wrong. You don't want to kill someone because our instincts tell us to keep the species alive. It is due to these impulses to be "moral," that society has invented the concept of prison and capital punishment; to reaffirm the human instinct to survive, and prolong survival.

You are taking the bible out of context in relation to the stoning etc..
Not everything in the bible is a literal translation.



Further, you are an atheist because you're rebelling against your parents etc..
Also further, you are an atheist because you choose to shut God out.

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01-09-2013, 06:45 PM
RE: Help me train
(I swear, you could easily pass for an actual Christian.)

Quote:1) Fraud, just like Mormonism. It's not the true faith.
2) Allah is just the Arab word for God, it's all the same God.

The Hindus make similar claims to the ones you make. It is unproductive to say that one religion is true when it has the same amount or less proof than another one. How is it that you can know that Hinduism is a fraud, and yet Christianity is not a fraud? And if Allah is the same as Yahweh, than why are a Muslim's beliefs so different than yours?


Quote:And this previous universe came from where?


I told you, it's only a hypothesis. It is currently impossible to know too much about cosmogenesis. The idea of the "Big compression" would explain where the tiny universe came from.


Quote:God is a super natural being. He was simply always there.
And in response to your inevitable response that matter could have just always been there, than that implies it is a super natural being with God like properties and furthers my argument.


If God was always there, than why did he wait so long to create the universe? Before the universe existed, where was God? Was he in nothing? The whole "God was always there" argument raises too many questions and answers too few. Why must matter be supernatural to have always existed? As no one can witness the beginning of matter, why can we not assume that matter was always there, for the same reason gravity was always there?


Quote:Because God wrote the bible through man.

Which man? Which men could be trusted to write the true, perfect word of God on scrolls, to be translated into many languages, loss of the meaning of words, non-inclusion of other "books," and the chance of all Bibles being burned. Which books were written by God, and which are false? Is the Apocrypha the word of God, or not? Why would God risk making an imperfect work to show the people of Earth that he was real? How can you be sure that the New Testament is divinely inspired as well?


Quote:All other forms of religion are fraud, they are not the true religion.
God has outlined for us the true religion written in the bible.
The fact some nut job from the 1800's who wears magic underwear claims to talk to angels doesn't disprove the one true religion.
And how do I know it's the one true religion? Because it says so in the bible (I assume).


Once again, we return to the notion that Christianity is the true religion because you know it is. How do you know? The Bible says it (you assume). How do you know that the Bible is true? The word of God is always true. How do you know that the Bible is the word of God? And so on, and so on. It is just circular reasoning, and it deserves no place in a debate. Joseph Smith never wore the undergarments that you speak of, and if he did, is that any less strange than not being allowed to eat pig because it says so in Leviticus?


Quote:But gravity doesn't have a conscious, it's just a force.


Most life is not conscious either. You and I are conscious because of millions of years of evolution working on our brains, making us smarter. Besides Consciousness, humans are just as much a force of life as a mosquito (especially you).


Quote:You are taking the bible out of context in relation to the stoning etc..
Not everything in the bible is a literal translation.

When, I ask you, is stoning a boy to death perfectly acceptable for being "stubborn and rebellious?" Simply look at the twenty-first chapter of Deuteronomy, and you'll see how "out of context" it is. How can you tell which parts of the Bible are metaphorical, and which ones are literal? What if Jesus was just a metaphor for something else? Is God himself a metaphor for cherries?


Quote:Further, you are an atheist because you're rebelling against your parents etc..
Also further, you are an atheist because you choose to shut God out.


As previously stated, a rebellious son will be stoned to death; why would I take that chance? My parents accept, and my Mother aids my study of religion. If I were to rebel against my parents, I wouldn't go shopping with my Father, or would get bad grades. It is hard to shut out God when I don't believe in him. Tell you what, God is benevolent, right? I'll believe in him if tomorrow, all diseases are cured.

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06-09-2013, 02:15 PM
RE: Help me train
Did I win?

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06-09-2013, 03:24 PM
RE: Help me train
He has the grumphy cat,he wins Tongue

I don't really like going outside.
It's too damn "peopley" out there....
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05-10-2013, 07:27 AM
RE: Help me train
I think he might have died. . .

Anyone else want to fight?

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05-10-2013, 01:58 PM
RE: Help me train
(05-10-2013 07:27 AM)Teen-skeptic-go! Wrote:  I think he might have died. . .

Anyone else want to fight?

I'll have a go.

How about the Ressurection of Jesus Christ?

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05-10-2013, 02:00 PM
RE: Help me train
I suppose.

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05-10-2013, 02:01 PM
RE: Help me train
Would you like to be Pro, or Anti?

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05-10-2013, 02:03 PM
RE: Help me train
Anti.

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