Help me train
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05-10-2013, 02:04 PM
RE: Help me train
Alright.

Shall I start then?

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05-10-2013, 02:06 PM
RE: Help me train
Please do.

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05-10-2013, 02:27 PM
RE: Help me train
Alright, Thank you ladies and gentlemen for this wonderful debate from Teen-Skeptic-Go.

Now, since my opponent has decided to argue against the ressurection of Jesus (Yeshua) of Nazareth.

Now, in order to disprove the Ressurection of Christ, my opponent must knock down these four facts and try to disprove the conclusion that NATURALLY comes from it (The ressurection:

Fact #1: After his crucifixion Jesus was buried by Joseph of Arimathea in a tomb.

Now, according to reasonablefaith.org's debate transcript between Bart Erhman and William Lane Craig:

"1. Jesus’ burial is multiply attested in early, independent sources.

We have four biographies of Jesus, by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, which have been collected into the New Testament, along with various letters of the apostle Paul. Now the burial account is part of Mark’s source material for the story of Jesus’ suffering and death. This is a very early source which is probably based on eyewitness testimony and which the commentator Rudolf Pesch dates to within seven years of the crucifixion. Moreover, Paul also cites an extremely early source for Jesus’ burial which most scholars date to within five years of Jesus’ crucifixion. Independent testimony to Jesus’ burial by Joseph is also found in the sources behind Matthew and Luke and the Gospel of John, not to mention the extra-biblical Gospel of Peter. Thus, we have the remarkable number of at least five independent sources for Jesus’ burial, some of which are extraordinarily early.

2. As a member of the Jewish Sanhedrin that condemned Jesus, Joseph of Arimathea is unlikely to be a Christian invention.

There was an understandable hostility in the early church toward the Jewish leaders. In Christian eyes, they had engineered a judicial murder of Jesus. Thus, according to the late New Testament scholar Raymond Brown, Jesus’ burial by Joseph is “very probable,” since it is “almost inexplicable” why Christians would make up a story about a Jewish Sanhedrist who does what is right by Jesus.

For these and other reasons, most New Testament critics concur that Jesus was buried by Joseph of Arimathea in a tomb. According to the late John A. T. Robinson of Cambridge University, the burial of Jesus in the tomb is “one of the earliest and best-attested facts about Jesus.”

Fact Two: Jesus's Tomb was found Empty.

Now, the Bible has been considered by Historians to be accurate, it has detailed numerous events that have happened, as well as given us the political/social and economic stature of Palastine in Jesus's time.

Taticus, a Roman Historian, said

"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind".

Now, that gives support to the Bible's claim that Jesus was born, which means that logically, the other parts of the bible must be true.

I would post more, but I am a bit busy with life stuff.

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12-10-2013, 09:47 AM
RE: Help me train
(05-10-2013 02:27 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Alright, Thank you ladies and gentlemen for this wonderful debate from Teen-Skeptic-Go.

Now, since my opponent has decided to argue against the ressurection of Jesus (Yeshua) of Nazareth.

Now, in order to disprove the Ressurection of Christ, my opponent must knock down these four facts and try to disprove the conclusion that NATURALLY comes from it (The ressurection:

Fact #1: After his crucifixion Jesus was buried by Joseph of Arimathea in a tomb.

Now, according to reasonablefaith.org's debate transcript between Bart Erhman and William Lane Craig:

"1. Jesus’ burial is multiply attested in early, independent sources.

We have four biographies of Jesus, by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, which have been collected into the New Testament, along with various letters of the apostle Paul. Now the burial account is part of Mark’s source material for the story of Jesus’ suffering and death. This is a very early source which is probably based on eyewitness testimony and which the commentator Rudolf Pesch dates to within seven years of the crucifixion. Moreover, Paul also cites an extremely early source for Jesus’ burial which most scholars date to within five years of Jesus’ crucifixion. Independent testimony to Jesus’ burial by Joseph is also found in the sources behind Matthew and Luke and the Gospel of John, not to mention the extra-biblical Gospel of Peter. Thus, we have the remarkable number of at least five independent sources for Jesus’ burial, some of which are extraordinarily early.

2. As a member of the Jewish Sanhedrin that condemned Jesus, Joseph of Arimathea is unlikely to be a Christian invention.

There was an understandable hostility in the early church toward the Jewish leaders. In Christian eyes, they had engineered a judicial murder of Jesus. Thus, according to the late New Testament scholar Raymond Brown, Jesus’ burial by Joseph is “very probable,” since it is “almost inexplicable” why Christians would make up a story about a Jewish Sanhedrist who does what is right by Jesus.

For these and other reasons, most New Testament critics concur that Jesus was buried by Joseph of Arimathea in a tomb. According to the late John A. T. Robinson of Cambridge University, the burial of Jesus in the tomb is “one of the earliest and best-attested facts about Jesus.”

Fact Two: Jesus's Tomb was found Empty.

Now, the Bible has been considered by Historians to be accurate, it has detailed numerous events that have happened, as well as given us the political/social and economic stature of Palastine in Jesus's time.

Taticus, a Roman Historian, said

"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind".

Now, that gives support to the Bible's claim that Jesus was born, which means that logically, the other parts of the bible must be true.

I would post more, but I am a bit busy with life stuff.


1: The authors of the gospels cannot be verified, and the names of the individual books are meaningless. Seeing as how the gospels contradict each other in many places, yet have the same basic story to them, they probably came from a similar source of inspiration, but if they were written by who the gospels say they were, they wouldn't have so many contradictions. For an example, Matthew 21 says that Jesus cursed the fig tree AFTER driving the merchants from the temple, but Mark 11 says that he cursed the fig tree BEFORE driving them before the temple.


2: The Bible, though it has some gargled hints of history sprinkled in it every so often, is not reliable at all. From basic archaeology, paleontology, radiometric dating, etc, we can tell that the Earth is far older than the 6000 or so years in the Bible. Even if Tacitus's information is accurate, that does nothing to give the rest of the Bible any reliability. The different books of the Bible were written by many people over thousands of years.

This response seems too short. Oh well.

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13-10-2013, 09:00 PM
RE: Help me train
Sorry, I've been busy. Will write up a "proper rebuttal" tomorrow.

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08-12-2013, 12:41 PM
RE: Help me train
Hello, teen skeptic! How perfect! I'm a teen apologist in training! I haven't gotten much practice in rhetoric and debate either, but we can help each other practice if you'd like!
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10-12-2013, 06:38 PM (This post was last modified: 10-12-2013 06:42 PM by TSG.)
RE: Help me train
(08-12-2013 12:41 PM)Inquisitive Minds Wrote:  Hello, teen skeptic! How perfect! I'm a teen apologist in training! I haven't gotten much practice in rhetoric and debate either, but we can help each other practice if you'd like!

Sounds okay to me, but can we start this whole thing over please? It's been a long time since I did this.

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10-12-2013, 07:21 PM
RE: Help me train
If you're going to debate, be sure to be honest and off the cuff. If you are using the Internet to prove your points on here, then that does you no good in real life. The true art of debate, and a successful defense as well, comes when you can recite these facts and stances without aid. Sure, in big public debates Hitchens would have notes, as would Harris or Dillahunty, but I imagine you are preparing for the casual debate with a family member or person on the bus. Read up, study and stick to a few solid points. Nothing loses a debate more than someone staggering and requesting to grab their little magic box from their pocket to look up a point they should already know.

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11-12-2013, 11:53 AM
RE: Help me train
(31-08-2013 09:53 AM)Teen-skeptic-go! Wrote:  Many people here appear to be very skilled at debating each other, and I myself can add points that I have heard before when online. However, I believe that I am nowhere near as good at debating theists as the other people here. If you are a theist, or someone else who is willing to mimic a theist, help me train for when I inevitably get into an actual debate. (This better be a legitimate thread.)
Whatcha wanna debate?
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11-12-2013, 12:42 PM
RE: Help me train
(10-12-2013 06:38 PM)Teen-skeptic-go! Wrote:  
(08-12-2013 12:41 PM)Inquisitive Minds Wrote:  Hello, teen skeptic! How perfect! I'm a teen apologist in training! I haven't gotten much practice in rhetoric and debate either, but we can help each other practice if you'd like!

Sounds okay to me, but can we start this whole thing over please? It's been a long time since I did this.

There's a whole subforum (The Boxing Ring) for one-on-one debates. I think they are supposed to be on a single topic, but you two could define a topic and then post there. That's probably the "cleanest" way to start this over.
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