Help on a logical fallacy.
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24-06-2016, 09:50 PM
RE: Help on a logical fallacy.
(24-06-2016 09:25 PM)gruntledone Wrote:  
(24-06-2016 08:59 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  What boards?
CARM.
I see we're allowed to cuss in here - cool.

Like hell we are! You knock that goddamned shit off, right fucking now!

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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24-06-2016, 09:54 PM
RE: Help on a logical fallacy.
(24-06-2016 09:25 PM)gruntledone Wrote:  
(24-06-2016 08:59 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  What boards?
CARM.
I see we're allowed to cuss in here - cool.

Matt Slick's site? eh. I've heard some of his stuff. It's presuppositional apologetics IIRC.

As far as profanity, yeah, it's generally ok. Some of the political and religious discussion threads get quite heated.

In this case though, I probably overreacted.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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24-06-2016, 09:58 PM
RE: Help on a logical fallacy.
Eww, CARM. I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole.

If we came from dust, then why is there still dust?
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24-06-2016, 09:59 PM
RE: Help on a logical fallacy.
(24-06-2016 09:20 PM)Foxen Wrote:  
(24-06-2016 09:17 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Maybe I'm looking for more intelligent debate than the likes of Q, Tommy and Blowjob can provide?

Aren't you just the cutest little thing.

Not in the slightest.



However I do apologize for my original response to you. I assumed your intent and overreacted.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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24-06-2016, 10:00 PM
RE: Help on a logical fallacy.
(24-06-2016 09:58 PM)cactus Wrote:  Eww, CARM. I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole.

Yeah, I've heard Matt Slick on The Atheist Experience.

It wasn't as bad as Sye Ten Bruggencate, but it wasn't a fun listen.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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24-06-2016, 10:03 PM
RE: Help on a logical fallacy.
Oh, and burden-shifting is a fallacy. They're simply mimicking what atheists ask them, when they make a positive claim, thinking that it's some kind of magical "gotcha" to anyone who says anything. To help show them why this is a fallacious argument, switch the topic to something else, to which they have no prior emotional attachment:

The claim: "I believe in Jesus Christ Smaug the dragon, who was crucified for our sins comes in the night and eats bad people."

The counter: "I don't think you have any evidence of this, do you?"

The response: "You have no evidence that it didn't doesn't happen!!!"

[/scene]

Now, of course we do have some evidence... you could point out that dragons cannot operate by the laws of physics that govern flight, and would literally require magic to function as-claimed, and that magic has not been shown to be a thing. (The same applies to Magic Jesus, of course.) You can point out that Smaug appears to be a literary character, and is borrowed heavily from older sources about other dragons, all of which are known to be mythical now, but were once revered by the people who invented those older stories. You can also show that people who have claimed their children were stolen by dragons were in fact making it up, and that many of the children were recovered from their very human captors. And so on. There are many ways to show their stories are human inventions and not indicators of a new species of fire-breathing, flying reptile, just as you can show that the stories in the Old Testament (including the name of God. Yahweh) are related to cultural mythologies from around/before the Israelites, and that the Gospels' stories about the multitudes who followed Jesus and saw him perform all these alleged miracles up and down the Levant simply did not appear to have reached the ears of the hundreds of recorders of history in that region at that time, even though there are extant copies of their works on all matters in Judea.

They will probably object to having their pet religious beliefs compared to dragon stories, but if that is the case, ask them how their stories of magic are different from other stories of magic.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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24-06-2016, 10:06 PM
RE: Help on a logical fallacy.
(24-06-2016 07:57 PM)gruntledone Wrote:  There is a particularly obnoxious christian poster on another board who delights in curt or one word responses.
The one he uses most often is "Your evidence is?". This is usually in reply to a statement like "there is no evidence for god" or some other contingency for which there is simply no evidence.
I have tried for weeks to track down which fallacy this is but it has eluded me.
It is obviously idiotic and based on burden shifting but I would like to know the exact fallacy this is.
Appreciate any help.

Logical fallacies are made in arguments. When he says, "Your evidence is?" he is not making an argument but asking a question. If you make the claim: "there is no evidence for God". Him responding, "Your evidence is?" is a silly question, but it is not a logical fallacy. Tell him his question is silly and then ignore it.
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24-06-2016, 10:17 PM
RE: Help on a logical fallacy.
(24-06-2016 10:03 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Oh, and burden-shifting is a fallacy.
You could also call it Proving Non-Existence

Also, Avoiding the Issue, Appeal to Possibility, Unfalsifiability

This person just sounds like a troll to me, but you know, CARM specializes in breeding trolls, so that doesn't surprise me. Rolleyes

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25-06-2016, 12:59 AM
RE: Help on a logical fallacy.
(24-06-2016 10:06 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(24-06-2016 07:57 PM)gruntledone Wrote:  There is a particularly obnoxious christian poster on another board who delights in curt or one word responses.
The one he uses most often is "Your evidence is?". This is usually in reply to a statement like "there is no evidence for god" or some other contingency for which there is simply no evidence.
I have tried for weeks to track down which fallacy this is but it has eluded me.
It is obviously idiotic and based on burden shifting but I would like to know the exact fallacy this is.
Appreciate any help.

Logical fallacies are made in arguments. When he says, "Your evidence is?" he is not making an argument but asking a question. If you make the claim: "there is no evidence for God". Him responding, "Your evidence is?" is a silly question, but it is not a logical fallacy. Tell him his question is silly and then ignore it.

As much as I dislike agreeing with Blowjob, he's right. Contrary to popular opinion, negatives can sometimes be proven logically ("I am not typing this post on a computer" is the one that springs to mind immediately), and asking for evidence of a negative claim is indeed most often silly, it is not an argument.

Nothing wrong with having to explain your position. Assuming his god is the Christian god, point out the internal contradictions, and enjoy his sputtering in front of a crowd.
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25-06-2016, 04:36 AM
RE: Help on a logical fallacy.
At work.

Just a point but there's nothing to say physically that something like a dragon could not exist

As in;

We have fossils of Pterrasaurs(?) with the wingspans of Cessnas.

We know of incendiary projecting insects.

That biology might not have combined the two on some distant world?

Should we coin the term "The no black dragon fallacy"?

Tongue
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