Help refuting a christian argument
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12-12-2011, 01:51 PM
RE: Help refuting a christian argument
(12-12-2011 12:24 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  It has already been pointed out that atheism is not in the strictest sense "a religion" (although it is in the legal sense - it's regarded as religion by US law and other countries' laws).

Really? What law would that be?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-12-2011, 02:18 PM
RE: Help refuting a christian argument
(12-12-2011 07:10 AM)Kaos MD Wrote:  1. I require assistance refuting an argument that I have been debating with a christian friend of mine.
...
My christian friend seems to believe that atheism is a religion where one worships oneself. He argues that everything an atheist does is to better himself in some way and that somehow that makes us gods because we "worship" ourselves. He also mentioned something about having to have faith that there isn't a god just the same as believing in a god.
...

First of all of course atheism is not a religion. In religion faith is the most important ingredient. And atheists lack faith. Also religion requires some kind of rituals like praying, lighting candles, meditation, church service, trance, or things like that.
After setting that ground and having him aggree that you need some kind of rituals ask him if he thinks you have any rituals you perform to worship yourself Wink And if he actually does think that, ask him what that might be in his opinion.
Worshipping yourself would prove that you think you should be kind of a step higher than others and it would also prove that you are a very insecure person.
You only lack believe in a God that noone seems to be able to prove.
Also simply not believing in the concept of a God or religion isn't the same as having faith that there is no God. Having faith that there is no God would mean that you are in doubt. Are you in doubt? Do you have thoughts like "I hope there really is no God"? If not, you don't have faith, you simply do not believe, which does not require faith, because it means that you thought about a lot of things logically and found some facts. Facts don't neet a leap of faith Smile

Hope that helps a bit

cheers Leela

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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12-12-2011, 04:23 PM
RE: Help refuting a christian argument
Thanks a lot for all of the replies! I am not very good at on the spot arguments, but I have some new ammunition to load in my myth busting cannon of truth.
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12-12-2011, 09:16 PM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2011 10:42 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Help refuting a christian argument
(12-12-2011 07:10 AM)Kaos MD Wrote:  My christian friend seems to believe that atheism is a religion where one worships oneself.

Atheism has led me to the gut feeling that our task is to learn to collectively worship ourselves, not one's self.

(12-12-2011 07:10 AM)Kaos MD Wrote:  He argues that everything an atheist does is to better himself in some way ....

Dude must not be a parent.

(12-12-2011 07:10 AM)Kaos MD Wrote:  and that somehow that makes us gods because we "worship" ourselves.

I got no problem with saying that "we" are collectively God and just rolling with it. Been doing it for a while now. The only question has always been the inclusiveness of the "we".

(12-12-2011 07:10 AM)Kaos MD Wrote:  He also mentioned something about having to have faith that there isn't a god just the same as believing in a god.

Huh? I don't have faith there is no Christian God, I just see it as highly unlikely, improbable, and ultimately untenable.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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12-12-2011, 09:43 PM
RE: Help refuting a christian argument
(12-12-2011 01:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-12-2011 12:24 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  It has already been pointed out that atheism is not in the strictest sense "a religion" (although it is in the legal sense - it's regarded as religion by US law and other countries' laws).

Really? What law would that be?

Equal Employment laws. You can't fire or refuse to hire someone on the grounds that they are an atheist, as that would be seen as "religious" discrimination. The courts hold atheism as a religion in the legal sense.

Seriously, with the amount of research I do, did you really think I was making that up? Couldn't you have simply "googled" that?

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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12-12-2011, 10:12 PM
RE: Help refuting a christian argument
(12-12-2011 09:43 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(12-12-2011 01:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-12-2011 12:24 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  It has already been pointed out that atheism is not in the strictest sense "a religion" (although it is in the legal sense - it's regarded as religion by US law and other countries' laws).

Really? What law would that be?

Equal Employment laws. You can't fire or refuse to hire someone on the grounds that they are an atheist, as that would be seen as "religious" discrimination. The courts hold atheism as a religion in the legal sense.

Seriously, with the amount of research I do, did you really think I was making that up? Couldn't you have simply "googled" that?
No, I didn't think you were making it up - I just couldn't think of a law.
I took it as 'legal' in that there was black letter law - my bad, I failed to consider the tortuous legal mind.
The courts seem to have ruled that atheism is protected under the First Amendment because the absence of religion is the equivalent of religion. Works for me.

Thanks.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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