Help through Deconversion
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25-10-2013, 09:17 AM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(25-10-2013 09:15 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(24-10-2013 05:10 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Chas thinks it's silly but there are Christian atheists, and Jewish atheists, and Buddhist atheists. And there are probably Muslim atheists but they risk their life by admitting it so they get a pass. Tongue

Silly? No. Oxymoronic? Possibly.
If those terms mean anything, they are cultural terms.
Someone grows up in a culture that has some majority religion and world view but rejects the concept of gods while internalizing the mores.
Then, sure, it might be a descriptive term.

Quote:The point is that now you are responsible for making your own point, creating your own meaning, understanding and fully appreciating that meaning is only to be found in the temporary. The eternal negates the possibility of meaning while the transitory exalts it. Think you'll be fine.


Da' fuq? Where did this particularly obnoxious rodent come from? Chas you leave the cellar door open again? We're gonna take away your keys if you can't remember to lock up old man. Tongue

I think I was on a coffee break. Drinking Beverage

No, come to think of it, I gave those keys back. Not my job, man. No

I think in my case it was just the convenience and knowledge of where a men's group would be. I saw an ad for the men's group and it was at the church. Had the ad been "Support for men who had a woman walk out on them, no god required!" I probably would've gone there instead. Smile
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25-10-2013, 09:22 AM
RE: Help through Deconversion
Sorry for a double post here, but I wanted to raise another question...

For those of you who have been through deconversion or anything similar, how did you handle night-time?

Just like a kid scared of monsters or someone suffering from generalized anxiety (such as myself), nighttime just represents a time where everything is quiet, I know I'll likely be alone, and is routinely where my thoughts being to collect and cause panic.

Last night was particularly awful; I had fallen asleep on the couch after playing the N64 for an hour, and woke up to a dead-silent, dark house, and immediately fell into a panic attack.

Not really sure what even caused it in specific, but I imagine I was just swarmed by a bunch of thoughts at once, and I've started to really develop an anxiety towards being alone, much to my girlfriend's benefit as I'm suddenly less hesitant to drive 20 minutes to see her every day >_>

Any thoughts?

EDIT: In addition, this house I live in is my first like, actual HOUSE, instead of an apartment, and I used to be super happy there and was proud of having a house to myself, but now I just associate it with all of this junk I'm going through, and Im starting to hate being there.

This house kicks ass, the price is great, and I've got an arcade cabinet and everything, so just moving isnt really an option.

Not sure if its too relevant, but just extra info.
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25-10-2013, 12:43 PM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(25-10-2013 09:22 AM)Jasozz Wrote:  Sorry for a double post here, but I wanted to raise another question...

For those of you who have been through deconversion or anything similar, how did you handle night-time?

Just like a kid scared of monsters or someone suffering from generalized anxiety (such as myself), nighttime just represents a time where everything is quiet, I know I'll likely be alone, and is routinely where my thoughts being to collect and cause panic.

Last night was particularly awful; I had fallen asleep on the couch after playing the N64 for an hour, and woke up to a dead-silent, dark house, and immediately fell into a panic attack.

Not really sure what even caused it in specific, but I imagine I was just swarmed by a bunch of thoughts at once, and I've started to really develop an anxiety towards being alone, much to my girlfriend's benefit as I'm suddenly less hesitant to drive 20 minutes to see her every day >_>

Any thoughts?

EDIT: In addition, this house I live in is my first like, actual HOUSE, instead of an apartment, and I used to be super happy there and was proud of having a house to myself, but now I just associate it with all of this junk I'm going through, and Im starting to hate being there.

This house kicks ass, the price is great, and I've got an arcade cabinet and everything, so just moving isnt really an option.

Not sure if its too relevant, but just extra info.

I've never had these big-house creeps. What I do have is a bit of insomnia. I wake up and I can't get to sleep because my brain won't stop working.

I point a circular fan at my bed. Even in the dead of winter when it makes me huddle under my blankets. The white noise it generates is awesome and it drowns out the sounds of the street.

You might consider some nightlights. Again, not mocking. If your house is big and stuff, that might be worthwhile to have just to keep from tripping over crap in the dark. Also, consider (if you can afford it) a sound system... doesn't have to be an expensive one, just a few cheap speakers... set up to play soothing natural sounds like rain as a background noise that you can ignore but which will stop it from being silent.

And again, if your anxiety is such that it is seriously impacting your life, seek professional help, if you haven't already.

((Also, 20 minute drive would normally be enough to keep you from seeing your girlfriend? WTF? Invite her over to your place and find a few new things to associate the house with.))
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25-10-2013, 12:46 PM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(25-10-2013 12:43 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  ((Also, 20 minute drive would normally be enough to keep you from seeing your girlfriend? WTF? Invite her over to your place and find a few new things to associate the house with.))

Haha, not at all, its just an extra excuse to do so.
Makes gas prices all the more negligible.

Truth be told, I did seek professional help when this deconversion thing hit home a month ago, when I was having crippling panic attacks and such. The doctor gave me medication that made things worse, and the therapy didnt go anywhere and was stupid expensive, so I just talked it out on my own and got back to a manageable level.

I think now I just recognize that when Im alone and have nothing to distract myself, my mind is going to wander and start blowing things out of proportion.
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25-10-2013, 06:52 PM (This post was last modified: 25-10-2013 08:54 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Help through Deconversion
(25-10-2013 09:15 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(24-10-2013 05:10 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Chas thinks it's silly but there are Christian atheists, and Jewish atheists, and Buddhist atheists. And there are probably Muslim atheists but they risk their life by admitting it so they get a pass. Tongue

Silly? No. Oxymoronic? Possibly.
If those terms mean anything, they are cultural terms.
Someone grows up in a culture that has some majority religion and world view but rejects the concept of gods while internalizing the mores.
Then, sure, it might be a descriptive term.

Yeah, that's got it. Thumbsup

(25-10-2013 09:15 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(24-10-2013 05:10 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Da' fuq? Where did this particularly obnoxious rodent come from? Chas you leave the cellar door open again? We're gonna take away your keys if you can't remember to lock up old man. Tongue

I think I was on a coffee break. Drinking Beverage

No, come to think of it, I gave those keys back. Not my job, man. No

It's the fucking Calvinist then sneaking out back for a spliff and getting too stoned to remember to shut the damn door. It's always the fucking Calvinists.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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25-10-2013, 06:55 PM
RE: Help through Deconversion
.....

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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25-10-2013, 08:45 PM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(25-10-2013 09:22 AM)Jasozz Wrote:  Sorry for a double post here, but I wanted to raise another question...

For those of you who have been through deconversion or anything similar, how did you handle night-time?

Just like a kid scared of monsters or someone suffering from generalized anxiety (such as myself), nighttime just represents a time where everything is quiet, I know I'll likely be alone, and is routinely where my thoughts being to collect and cause panic.

Last night was particularly awful; I had fallen asleep on the couch after playing the N64 for an hour, and woke up to a dead-silent, dark house, and immediately fell into a panic attack.

Not really sure what even caused it in specific, but I imagine I was just swarmed by a bunch of thoughts at once, and I've started to really develop an anxiety towards being alone, much to my girlfriend's benefit as I'm suddenly less hesitant to drive 20 minutes to see her every day >_>

Any thoughts?

EDIT: In addition, this house I live in is my first like, actual HOUSE, instead of an apartment, and I used to be super happy there and was proud of having a house to myself, but now I just associate it with all of this junk I'm going through, and Im starting to hate being there.

This house kicks ass, the price is great, and I've got an arcade cabinet and everything, so just moving isnt really an option.

Not sure if its too relevant, but just extra info.

Its called separation anxiety... I get it sometimes when I go through a bad patch of anxiety attacks. I too associated being at home with gloomy thoughts.

I moved the furniture around, it makes rooms seem new and breaks some of the association.

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27-10-2013, 01:54 PM
Wink RE: Help through Deconversion
Woo, newbie here, this is My first post. sorry for my bad english and very bad grammar, hope all can understand what am writing. Yea, deconversion can be a bit painful. it's like something within you has been ripped up and taken away so suddently.

1. What if I'm wrong and there is still a God/Hell?

- hm, just face it! hehehe always prepare for the worse. "Im ready to be rotten in hell forever". if hell do exist I think we only suffer maybe couple of hundred years. after that then we will adapt to climate and all torture in hell and can start a campaign about "Making a Hell a better place, for future generations", who knows we can beat heaven in term of quality of life.


2. How do I tell my entirely Christian family that I don't believe anymore?

- because you said, u love your family, u love the church, and love volunteer work. you can have an options that u dont have to tell your family. you dont need to believe in jesus to come to church and do "religion act". Back then couple of years ago, its not rare i go church, pray and sing together with christian people, even though im not christians and dont care about jesus. I do it because I enjoy it.
- because now u dont believe in god, I assume u believe that life is just one time (dont believe in reincarnations), having this conditions, u should really consider your relationship with family that you love. Dont ruin those relations or wasting time by making them sad (by telling them about disconvertion things).
- now, u can said "I no longer accept bible as truth" or GOd is not exist, but your family is exist, their emotions for you are real and its very precious, think about this, if you tell them they will be sad, and even if somehow if they accept you, its gonna be a long road. Its okay not to tell anyone about your atheism, no one can force you into openly declare as an atheist. No one can blame you because you want to keep a good relation with your family.
- now if you go to church, its not because of heaven or hell, but because you put a great value on your relationship with your family. i think its beautiful things.
- If you have the effords, time, and willingness, you can even try to make your entire family follow your path (secretly offcourse) or make them less and less care about religions. Do it slowly, strategically until they can accept you as an atheist gladly at minimum and/or follow your path if posible. This way u wont ruin your precious relationship.


3. If I have children, how do I raise them? I know that my experiences in the church and the mission field had a huge part in defining who I am today, and while I don't believe in that God anymore, how do I raise my children with those values while dealing with a family that is Christian?

4. (The Big One) I now feel like life is pointless. Recently I can't get excited about anything because my mind just jumps to "it won't matter and you're going to die eventually". I've also developed a MASSIVE fear of my own mortality since this deconversion thing kicked into high-gear, due to A) being afraid of being wrong and there being an eternal punishment and B) feeling the brevity of life now that I've started really thinking about it.

-number 3 and 4 have a very deep connections. Yea, a good thing of being an atheist is to have a great chance to really know about your-self. maybe those "massive fear" and "feeling life is pointless" is already within you to begin with. But all this time, you suppress it with "God concept" in your mind. Well, now God is gone, nothing that suppress all of that things, so you feel it more intens. It is the naked you ^^, accept it, and learn how much you depend on "God and religion" all this time. Only then you can start to live without "God". How? I think the best way is to observe yourself by being a witness. lots of fun and interesting thing you will find when you observe yourself.
-when u know yourself inside-out, then you will know more or less about other people. This knowledge will make you a very wise people, u will understand why you do this, and why other do that. This understanding and knowledge about yourself, is a very great asset in raising a child.

-dont be too serious in life. relax abit there is no god that will punish you now ^^ hehehe. Hm, i remember satre quote, "God shape a hole in human heart". hehehe, God may not exist but the Hole is there, we need to learn to live without God, need to patch the hole with lots of wonderful things in life. Yea, being an atheist is not just denied God existance, but is also to learn live without god. hm, lets take example of a child that have imaginary friends to comfort the loneliness and "afraid of being alone". reject and denied the imaginary friend is easy, but learn how to live without feeling lonely and Not afraid of being alone, is another thing. lot of people who dont have imaginary friends still feeling lonely and afraid of being alone. this post just an opinion, I hope this post can ease abit and make deconvertion least painful as posible.

btw, sorry for offtopic. is there anyway in these forum to use a spoiler? like /spoiler [massage] /spoiler things? i tend to write alot, and dont want to bother people to scroll a lot when not interested in "a long part" of my post.

Madman.
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28-10-2013, 07:13 AM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(25-10-2013 08:45 PM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  I moved the furniture around, it makes rooms seem new and breaks some of the association.

Thanks for this. I actually did some redecorating recently, put some new stuff on the walls, changed air fresheners and it helped alot. Plus having my girl over and making some new memories there has helped alot too.

And madman, thanks for your advice, and Im not sure on the spoiler tag.
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28-10-2013, 10:38 AM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(27-10-2013 01:54 PM)Madman Wrote:  Woo, newbie here, this is My first post. sorry for my bad english and very bad grammar, hope all can understand what am writing. Yea, deconversion can be a bit painful. it's like something within you has been ripped up and taken away so suddently.

1. What if I'm wrong and there is still a God/Hell?

- hm, just face it! hehehe always prepare for the worse. "Im ready to be rotten in hell forever". if hell do exist I think we only suffer maybe couple of hundred years. after that then we will adapt to climate and all torture in hell and can start a campaign about "Making a Hell a better place, for future generations", who knows we can beat heaven in term of quality of life.


2. How do I tell my entirely Christian family that I don't believe anymore?

- because you said, u love your family, u love the church, and love volunteer work. you can have an options that u dont have to tell your family. you dont need to believe in jesus to come to church and do "religion act". Back then couple of years ago, its not rare i go church, pray and sing together with christian people, even though im not christians and dont care about jesus. I do it because I enjoy it.
- because now u dont believe in god, I assume u believe that life is just one time (dont believe in reincarnations), having this conditions, u should really consider your relationship with family that you love. Dont ruin those relations or wasting time by making them sad (by telling them about disconvertion things).
- now, u can said "I no longer accept bible as truth" or GOd is not exist, but your family is exist, their emotions for you are real and its very precious, think about this, if you tell them they will be sad, and even if somehow if they accept you, its gonna be a long road. Its okay not to tell anyone about your atheism, no one can force you into openly declare as an atheist. No one can blame you because you want to keep a good relation with your family.
- now if you go to church, its not because of heaven or hell, but because you put a great value on your relationship with your family. i think its beautiful things.
- If you have the effords, time, and willingness, you can even try to make your entire family follow your path (secretly offcourse) or make them less and less care about religions. Do it slowly, strategically until they can accept you as an atheist gladly at minimum and/or follow your path if posible. This way u wont ruin your precious relationship.


3. If I have children, how do I raise them? I know that my experiences in the church and the mission field had a huge part in defining who I am today, and while I don't believe in that God anymore, how do I raise my children with those values while dealing with a family that is Christian?

4. (The Big One) I now feel like life is pointless. Recently I can't get excited about anything because my mind just jumps to "it won't matter and you're going to die eventually". I've also developed a MASSIVE fear of my own mortality since this deconversion thing kicked into high-gear, due to A) being afraid of being wrong and there being an eternal punishment and B) feeling the brevity of life now that I've started really thinking about it.

-number 3 and 4 have a very deep connections. Yea, a good thing of being an atheist is to have a great chance to really know about your-self. maybe those "massive fear" and "feeling life is pointless" is already within you to begin with. But all this time, you suppress it with "God concept" in your mind. Well, now God is gone, nothing that suppress all of that things, so you feel it more intens. It is the naked you ^^, accept it, and learn how much you depend on "God and religion" all this time. Only then you can start to live without "God". How? I think the best way is to observe yourself by being a witness. lots of fun and interesting thing you will find when you observe yourself.
-when u know yourself inside-out, then you will know more or less about other people. This knowledge will make you a very wise people, u will understand why you do this, and why other do that. This understanding and knowledge about yourself, is a very great asset in raising a child.

-dont be too serious in life. relax abit there is no god that will punish you now ^^ hehehe. Hm, i remember satre quote, "God shape a hole in human heart". hehehe, God may not exist but the Hole is there, we need to learn to live without God, need to patch the hole with lots of wonderful things in life. Yea, being an atheist is not just denied God existance, but is also to learn live without god. hm, lets take example of a child that have imaginary friends to comfort the loneliness and "afraid of being alone". reject and denied the imaginary friend is easy, but learn how to live without feeling lonely and Not afraid of being alone, is another thing. lot of people who dont have imaginary friends still feeling lonely and afraid of being alone. this post just an opinion, I hope this post can ease abit and make deconvertion least painful as posible.

btw, sorry for offtopic. is there anyway in these forum to use a spoiler? like /spoiler [massage] /spoiler things? i tend to write alot, and dont want to bother people to scroll a lot when not interested in "a long part" of my post.

Madman.

[ spoiler] text [ /spoiler]

Remove the space after the first bracket and it will look like this.

Text

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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