Help through Deconversion
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28-10-2013, 03:17 PM (This post was last modified: 28-10-2013 03:23 PM by Losty.)
RE: Help through Deconversion
Ok I have a hard time believing that a Christian would tell someone to kill themselves, but some people are just bad people. Anyone who would say something like that is a horrible person. I also have a hard time understanding how it could not be against forum rules to tell someone to kill themselves. It is cyber bullying and I am pretty sure it is illegal.

Now moving on. Jasozz, I can relate to you to a certain extent, because I too had/have a lot of the same questions as you. I think it is probably harder for you because you grew up loving your faith. I struggled with my faith for years before I even considered another option. I felt like Christians (the ones I knew) were cruel and hated women. I felt like I was trapped under a god who wished me to suffer simply for being born a woman even though he was supposedly the one who made me a woman in the first place. I hated the religion long before I ever considered rejecting it. So I don't feel like I am losing anything special. That must be really hard. I don't know if I am the right person to give advice on this right now, but I will tell you how I have been trying to deal these same questions.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  1. What if I'm wrong and there is still a God/Hell?

2. How do I tell my entirely Christian family that I don't believe anymore?

3. If I have children, how do I raise them? I know that my experiences in the church and the mission field had a huge part in defining who I am today, and while I don't believe in that God anymore, how do I raise my children with those values while dealing with a family that is Christian?

4. (The Big One) I now feel like life is pointless. Recently I can't get excited about anything because my mind just jumps to "it won't matter and you're going to die eventually". I've also developed a MASSIVE fear of my own mortality since this deconversion thing kicked into high-gear, due to A) being afraid of being wrong and there being an eternal punishment and B) feeling the brevity of life now that I've started really thinking about it.

1: I really don't believe in god anymore. I have always had a huge issue with hell and I think that is what helped me out here. I think it is normal to fear hell. Any person (even atheist) would be afraid if they were faced with a real prospect of burning for eternity. Being raised a Christian strengthens the fear because you are taught that hell is actually real. It seems like a contradiction to me though. How can you have a loving god who loves everyone and have hell? That makes no sense. If someone told me they would shoot me unless I believed a very far fetched story with no proof, I would not be able to. I could lie to them that I believed, but in my mind I would be thinking "if it were really true, you wouldn't need to threaten me to get me to believe". That is how I see religion lately. They make up some terrifying threat (hell) to try and force us to believe in a lie (god).

2: I haven't told my family yet, an I don't know if I ever will. I assume if they do end up finding out it will be more of a slow process where they grow to realize over a period of time. I don't see how "coming out" as an atheist would benefit myself or anyone else. Maybe soon I will stop trying to hide it, but I am never going to sit down with my parents and say I am an atheist. (Ok never say never, I definitely don't plan to do that).

3: I am really struggling with this because I already have children. My kids are 5, 4, and 1. I have been thinking about it a lot and actually have talked to a few people here about it. After some awesome advice I decided to turn god into Santa clause. What I mean is, I will teach my children about god and Christianity as the people in our area view it. Leaving out the parts I disagree with and only telling what I like to call Kiddie Sunday School fluff. I will let it be a nice story with a valuable lesson, and I will tell my kids that even though we know it isn't real some people don't and we shouldn't argue with them about it because we don't want to hurt their feelings. When my kids get a little older we can come up with a new game plan if need be.
I will tell you this about being a parent (regardless of religious status), it is hard. There is no one way to be a good parent. There is no special game plan to make sure your kids turn out best. It is like a game of guess and check. You love your kids and you do your best for them. You try your hardest to give them everything they need in life to grow up as well rounded as possible. You try not to damage then too much (lol). No one is perfect, even though for our children's sake we really wish we could be. You just have to do your best. For me personally, I have grown with my children. I learn good parenting techniques from them all the time. Well anyways I won't go on about this all day haha. Just do your best, it's all you can do.

4: Big changes can lead to depression. It is normal. I chose to get some professional help. If you think that would help you I suggest you find a non-religious therapist. Of course you know there are great things in your life, but you can't help how feel. Just keep reminding yourself of all the good things, and try to figure out what purpose you would give yourself. Like many things, only you get to choose what life means for you. You define your life, you define yourself.
As for fearing death, yea me too man. But I mean, we can't avoid death. We will eventually die. So I choose not to let my fear of death have any power over my life. I am going to enjoy my life while I have it. Once you die there's nothing left to fear I guess.
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28-10-2013, 03:22 PM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(28-10-2013 03:17 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Ok I have a hard time believing that a Christian would tell someone to kill themselves, but some people are just bad people. Anyone who would say something like that is a horrible person. I also have a hard time understanding how it could not be against forum rules to tell someone to kill themselves. It is cyber bullying and I am pretty sure it is illegal.

Now moving on. Jasozz, I can relate to you to a certain extent, because I too had/have a lot of the same questions as you. I think it is probably harder for you because you grew up loving your faith. I struggled with my faith for years before I even considered another option. I felt like Christians (the ones I knew) were cruel and hated women. I felt like I was trapped under a god who wished me to suffer simply for being born a woman even though he was supposedly the one who made me a woman in the first place. I hated the religion long before I ever considered rejecting it. So I don't feel like I am losing anything special. That must be really hard. I don't know if I am the right person to give advice on this right now, but I will tell you how I have been trying to deal these same questions.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  1. What if I'm wrong and there is still a God/Hell?

2. How do I tell my entirely Christian family that I don't believe anymore?

3. If I have children, how do I raise them? I know that my experiences in the church and the mission field had a huge part in defining who I am today, and while I don't believe in that God anymore, how do I raise my children with those values while dealing with a family that is Christian?

4. (The Big One) I now feel like life is pointless. Recently I can't get excited about anything because my mind just jumps to "it won't matter and you're going to die eventually". I've also developed a MASSIVE fear of my own mortality since this deconversion thing kicked into high-gear, due to A) being afraid of being wrong and there being an eternal punishment and B) feeling the brevity of life now that I've started really thinking about it.

1: I really don't believe in god anymore. I have always had a huge issue with hell and I think that is what helped me out here. I think it is normal to fear hell. Any person (even atheist) would be afraid if they were faced with a real prospect of burning for eternity. Being raised a Christian strengthens the fear because you are taught that hell is actually real. It seems like a contradiction to me though. How can you have a loving god who loves everyone and have hell? That makes no sense. If someone told me they would shoot me unless I believed a very far fetched story with no proof, I would not be able to. I could lie to them that I believed, but in my mind I would be thinking "if it were really true, you wouldn't need to threaten me to get me to believe". That is how I see religion lately. They make up some terrifying threat (hell) to try and force us to believe in a lie (god).

2: I haven't told my family yet, an I don't know if I ever will. I assume if they do end up finding out it will be more of a slow process where they grow to realize over a period of time. I don't see how "coming out" as an atheist would benefit myself or anyone else. Maybe soon I will stop trying to hide it, but I am never going to sit down with my parents and say I am an atheist. (Ok never say never, I definitely don't plan to do that).

3: I am really struggling with this because I already have children. My kids are 5, 4, and 1. I have been thinking about it a lot and actually have talked to a few people here about it. After some awesome advice I decided to turn god into Santa clause. What I mean is, I will teach my children about god and Christianity as the people in our area view it. Leaving out the parts I disagree with and only telling what I like to call Kiddie Sunday School fluff. I will let it be a nice story with a valuable lesson, and I will tell my kids that even though we know it isn't real some people don't and we shouldn't argue with them about it because we don't want to hurt their feelings. When my kids get a little older we can come up with a new game plan if need be.
I will tell you this about being a parent (regardless of religious status), it is hard. There is no one way to be a good parent. There is no special game plan to make sure your kids turn out best. It is like a game of guess and check. You love your kids and you do your best for them. You try your hardest to give them everything they need in life to grow up as well rounded as possible. You try not to damage then too much (lol). No one is perfect, even though for our children's sake we really wish we could be. You just have to do your best. For me personally, I have grown with my children. I learn good parenting techniques from them all the time. Well anyways I won't go on about this all day haha. Just do your best, it's all you can do.

4: Big changes can lead to depression. It is normal. I chose to get some professional help. If you think that would help you I suggest you find a non-religious therapist. Of you know there are great thinhs in your life, but you can't help how feel. Just keep reminding yourself of all the good things, and try to figure out what purpose you would give yourself. Like many things, only you get to choose what life means for you. You define your life, you define yourself.
As for fearing death, yea me too man. But I mean, we can't avoid death. We will eventually die. So I choose not to let my fear of death have any power over my life. I am going to enjoy my life while I have it. Once you die there's nothing left to fear I guess.

Some great input, especially on the parenting thing. Smile

One other thing is that I guess death USED to scare me, because I was pretty sure I was going to hell, since I had so many doubts about my faith. Now, death is just really depressing, because it carries alot more finality now. But like everyone has been saying, just more reason to make this life count Smile

I hope things clear up for you as well. I read your thread and it was a truly moving story. I hope you find some very well-deserved happiness.
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28-10-2013, 03:27 PM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(28-10-2013 03:22 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  Some great input, especially on the parenting thing. Smile

One other thing is that I guess death USED to scare me, because I was pretty sure I was going to hell, since I had so many doubts about my faith. Now, death is just really depressing, because it carries alot more finality now. But like everyone has been saying, just more reason to make this life count Smile

I hope things clear up for you as well. I read your thread and it was a truly moving story. I hope you find some very well-deserved happiness.

Thank you, and I wish the same for you! Good luck Smile
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28-10-2013, 06:02 PM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(28-10-2013 03:22 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  
(28-10-2013 03:17 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Ok I have a hard time believing that a Christian would tell someone to kill themselves, but some people are just bad people. Anyone who would say something like that is a horrible person. I also have a hard time understanding how it could not be against forum rules to tell someone to kill themselves. It is cyber bullying and I am pretty sure it is illegal.

Now moving on. Jasozz, I can relate to you to a certain extent, because I too had/have a lot of the same questions as you. I think it is probably harder for you because you grew up loving your faith. I struggled with my faith for years before I even considered another option. I felt like Christians (the ones I knew) were cruel and hated women. I felt like I was trapped under a god who wished me to suffer simply for being born a woman even though he was supposedly the one who made me a woman in the first place. I hated the religion long before I ever considered rejecting it. So I don't feel like I am losing anything special. That must be really hard. I don't know if I am the right person to give advice on this right now, but I will tell you how I have been trying to deal these same questions.


1: I really don't believe in god anymore. I have always had a huge issue with hell and I think that is what helped me out here. I think it is normal to fear hell. Any person (even atheist) would be afraid if they were faced with a real prospect of burning for eternity. Being raised a Christian strengthens the fear because you are taught that hell is actually real. It seems like a contradiction to me though. How can you have a loving god who loves everyone and have hell? That makes no sense. If someone told me they would shoot me unless I believed a very far fetched story with no proof, I would not be able to. I could lie to them that I believed, but in my mind I would be thinking "if it were really true, you wouldn't need to threaten me to get me to believe". That is how I see religion lately. They make up some terrifying threat (hell) to try and force us to believe in a lie (god).

2: I haven't told my family yet, an I don't know if I ever will. I assume if they do end up finding out it will be more of a slow process where they grow to realize over a period of time. I don't see how "coming out" as an atheist would benefit myself or anyone else. Maybe soon I will stop trying to hide it, but I am never going to sit down with my parents and say I am an atheist. (Ok never say never, I definitely don't plan to do that).

3: I am really struggling with this because I already have children. My kids are 5, 4, and 1. I have been thinking about it a lot and actually have talked to a few people here about it. After some awesome advice I decided to turn god into Santa clause. What I mean is, I will teach my children about god and Christianity as the people in our area view it. Leaving out the parts I disagree with and only telling what I like to call Kiddie Sunday School fluff. I will let it be a nice story with a valuable lesson, and I will tell my kids that even though we know it isn't real some people don't and we shouldn't argue with them about it because we don't want to hurt their feelings. When my kids get a little older we can come up with a new game plan if need be.
I will tell you this about being a parent (regardless of religious status), it is hard. There is no one way to be a good parent. There is no special game plan to make sure your kids turn out best. It is like a game of guess and check. You love your kids and you do your best for them. You try your hardest to give them everything they need in life to grow up as well rounded as possible. You try not to damage then too much (lol). No one is perfect, even though for our children's sake we really wish we could be. You just have to do your best. For me personally, I have grown with my children. I learn good parenting techniques from them all the time. Well anyways I won't go on about this all day haha. Just do your best, it's all you can do.

4: Big changes can lead to depression. It is normal. I chose to get some professional help. If you think that would help you I suggest you find a non-religious therapist. Of you know there are great thinhs in your life, but you can't help how feel. Just keep reminding yourself of all the good things, and try to figure out what purpose you would give yourself. Like many things, only you get to choose what life means for you. You define your life, you define yourself.
As for fearing death, yea me too man. But I mean, we can't avoid death. We will eventually die. So I choose not to let my fear of death have any power over my life. I am going to enjoy my life while I have it. Once you die there's nothing left to fear I guess.

Some great input, especially on the parenting thing. Smile

One other thing is that I guess death USED to scare me, because I was pretty sure I was going to hell, since I had so many doubts about my faith. Now, death is just really depressing, because it carries alot more finality now. But like everyone has been saying, just more reason to make this life count Smile

I hope things clear up for you as well. I read your thread and it was a truly moving story. I hope you find some very well-deserved happiness.

I suppose at a younger age, death does seem depressing... But someone in their 80s may feel literally tired of life, and see death a different way.

I've heard a lot of older people say that the idea of eternal life isn't attractive... I suppose you can have too much of life.

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28-10-2013, 06:52 PM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(28-10-2013 07:13 AM)Jasozz Wrote:  
(25-10-2013 08:45 PM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  I moved the furniture around, it makes rooms seem new and breaks some of the association.

Thanks for this. I actually did some redecorating recently, put some new stuff on the walls, changed air fresheners and it helped alot. Plus having my girl over and making some new memories there has helped alot too.

And madman, thanks for your advice, and Im not sure on the spoiler tag.

Jasozz,

I didn't read through all 12 pages, so forgive me if I am covering old ground here. From my perspective, on raising your children and the anxiety over your future, nothing has really changed has it? I don't think you have to change your view on life, certainly not change your goals or who you think you are. If you really do not believe in God, then he didn't make you who you are. Your parents influenced you, not exactly the content of their message. God was never real, or the holy spirit. So the man you are came from love and patience and guidance. You will provide that for your children, irregardless of your view on god. As I suspect your parents did.

Some people feel their values come from the bible, but obviously that cannot be true. There are so many who do not provide that for their children even though they follow the same book. History is replete with godly people doing bad things, as well as ungodly people. You are who you are. Religion, or the lack there of, cannot give or take that from you.

As far as your future, or the reason for life...you were always the master of your own destiny. Only now you don't have to give credit to to an imaginary friend, nor can you blame him(or her). But you never really could, could you? He was never really there. I know it may seem like everything has changed, but reality hasn't changed at all, just a little perspective on your part. But that would happen anyway through life's journey, one way or another. I say embrace it, embrace who you are, love your family, they will love you even if you are different. Those who don't , don't deserve your allegiance.

Again, if I tread on old news, I apologize, I didn't have time to read all the posts. Good luck and welcome to the forum.
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28-10-2013, 06:55 PM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(24-10-2013 07:42 AM)excubitor Wrote:  If my words have not pricked you in the heart and moved you to repentance then you are lost and destined for hell. I will not pray for you. Goodbye. You are on my ignore list.

Praise Jesus!!! :-)
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28-10-2013, 07:11 PM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(24-10-2013 08:26 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Cool. Not a problem Thumbsup

Jasozz is an enormous failure. All that investment in a christian upbringing, raised by a christian father all flushed down the toilet. What a disgraceful failure. Failed his church, failed his pastors, failed his father. Now he has failed me as well. Stands to reason therefore that he has failed God and the life that God planted in him.

[/quote]

Too bad he forgets that a majority of atheists came from religion. And I notice that he is a misogynist. Not once did he mention you failing your mother :-)
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28-10-2013, 07:11 PM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(24-10-2013 08:26 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Jasozz is an enormous failure. All that investment in a christian upbringing, raised by a christian father all flushed down the toilet. What a disgraceful failure. Failed his church, failed his pastors, failed his father. Now he has failed me as well. Stands to reason therefore that he has failed God and the life that God planted in him.

Too bad he forgets that a majority of atheists came from religion. And I notice that he is a misogynist. Not once did he mention you failing your mother :-)
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28-10-2013, 10:26 PM
RE: Help through Deconversion
Without having read the 12 pages, here are some thoughts from someone with a very similar history:

1. Remember that cognitive dissonance you experienced as a Christian whenever you tried to reconcile a merciful God with incessant torture for eternity as a punishment for those unable to believe the nonsense in the Bible? Trust those instincts. Hell has zero percent chance of being real. You aren't going there, period.

2. You can say nothing to your family and friends for now, or tell them you are taking a break. Remember all Christians have doubts lurking below the surface of their indoctrination, and you may ultimately salvage the lives of some of your younger family members (see #3).

3. This is the best part. I have kids, and they blossomed once I got them away from being taught that they are sinners deserving of God's punishment, and allowed them instead to be ordinary secular kids. You teach them a simple ethic of not causing suffering (including to themselves), and alleviating suffering wherever possible. You will be saving them from a whole host of destructive maladies, including the guilt, judgmentalism, narrow mindedness, cognitive dissonance, end of days seeking, and distrust of those not like themselves and of science that is the inevitable baggage of Christianity. See Seth's video, 'Welcome to this world', and you'll be forever grateful that your kids were never indoctrinated with this madness.

4. As a Christian this life was about preparing for eternity, which of course doesn't exist for you. This is a waste of a life. As a secular person, dealing with the world as it really is, every day has so much more meaning. This is your only life, and it is short, so you have every incentive to squeeze the most out of every day. While fear of death is natural, remember what Twain said, 'I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.' See Seth's video 'Afterlife' and you'll have no desire to live forever.

Hope it helps, and congratulations. As time passes you will revel in your new found liberty to experience life as it really is.
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29-10-2013, 02:29 AM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  Hello everyone, my name is Jason. I'm going through what I consider to be a deconversion process and its really screwed up my life. Its a long story, so keep reading for the backstory, or skip down towards the bottom for my questions at least. I appreciate everyone's time.

I'm posting here because I've found myself in a rough spot and was hoping some people here may have had similar experiences to my own.

I was born into and raised in a Christian family. My parents are fantastic, and raised me with great values into the well-rounded, loving, ambitious man I am today. I always felt at home in the churches we attended, and consider many members of the congregation as extensions of my family. I was in youth groups, went on mission trips, participated in VBS and drama, and loved all of it. I never had any times in church where I felt like my life was being run by my religion, or felt like I was trapped in it, so my thoughts and feelings do not reflect a feeling of bitterness towards the church.

The fact of the matter is, around 8th Grade or so I got into that critical-thinking part of my life where I started to question alot more, and around this time I finally read the Bible cover to cover, and I kind of realized that it didn't really make sense to me anymore.

I started to notice the discrepancies in the religion, such as asking myself how it is fair for God to judge me, who was raised in a loving Christian family, and also someone who grew up in a Hindu culture loving that religion, or in a Kiberan slum, knowing nothing but pain and sorrow for most of their life. How is that fair to begin with, coming from an all-loving God, and how is it fair for them to be judged equally on their eternal fate? There's many other things that I picked up on, but I'm not here to discuss Christianity or try to prove/disprove it.

With doubt, came my engrained fear of Hell, and I told myself that I was just going through a phase, and kept going to church and tried not to think about it.
Through high school, my doubts grew and my attraction to church dwindled. By my sophomore year, I could no longer, with a clear conscience, say to someone that I believed in God. I graduated and went to college, and basically stopped going to church. During this time I sort of blocked out the issue altogether. Thinking about it only caused anxiety (something I suffer from to begin with) and as much as I tried, I couldn't get myself to decide either way. The ONLY thing tethering me to Christianity was my fear of Hell and punishment, as well as the pain of losing or hurting my family if I became the ONLY non-Christian in our entire family, but that wasn't enough to make me want to keep going to church.

After a rough breakup and some pretty deep depression, I thought connecting with a church might help me out a little, but unfortunately I found I could no longer get engaged with the church. I joined a Men's group that was all about being a better man/husband/etc., which I loved, because I was still CULTURALLY a Christian, and to this day I still deeply value the teachings of serving and loving others unconditionally, as well as a great deal of other non-deity-related teachings. This wasn't enough to light my spiritual flame though, and I stopped attending and went back to ignoring the issue.

Fast forward a year, and I've met an amazing girl. By far one of the sweetest and most amazing women I've ever met, with a heart for everyone. However, like the other girls I'd dated, she was an atheist. This didn't bother me at all, because I knew that I wasn't a hardcore Christian to begin with.

// PROBLEM STARTS HERE //

However, one little argument kicked my life into one of the worst rollercoaster rides I've ever been on.

We were discussing something about creationism in schools, and something she said took a stab at Christianity, and I immediately went on the defense to defend Christianity, and realized I had nothing to say. I love my family, and I love the church and the people I grew up with, and I have a servant's heart, and love volunteer work, disaster relief, you name it. Yet at that moment, I had no desire to defend the theistic parts of Christianity. I had some of the worst anxiety attacks of my life the next few days, realizing that I didn't believe in Christianity anymore, wondering what was going on.
Was I going to Hell? Was there a Hell? How do I tell my family? Is this my girlfriend's fault? Is this my fault?

Its been about two months since then and I've done a great deal of reading and thinking on the matter.

I've concluded that I no longer accept the Bible as truth, and haven't for a long time. While there are some great lessons in the Bible, overall, I do not believe in the Christian doctrine.

Now, I'm facing a lot of huge, looming fears with deconversion.

1. What if I'm wrong and there is still a God/Hell?

2. How do I tell my entirely Christian family that I don't believe anymore?

3. If I have children, how do I raise them? I know that my experiences in the church and the mission field had a huge part in defining who I am today, and while I don't believe in that God anymore, how do I raise my children with those values while dealing with a family that is Christian?

4. (The Big One) I now feel like life is pointless. Recently I can't get excited about anything because my mind just jumps to "it won't matter and you're going to die eventually". I've also developed a MASSIVE fear of my own mortality since this deconversion thing kicked into high-gear, due to A) being afraid of being wrong and there being an eternal punishment and B) feeling the brevity of life now that I've started really thinking about it.

If anyone out there has had a similar experience and can help, I could really use the advice. I do not think Christianity is stupid nor do I hate Christians. I love my family and I want this to be the least painful as possible.

Thanks for reading and sorry it was long-winded.

Hey J, you've been done over by a church. You've had your individuality and your self-esteem deliberately crushed. You need to stop looking at them as friends and recognise them as the enemy (not necessarily the individuals, but the "system.") Have a read of this and take from it what you will...
http://www.markfulton.org/the-psychologi...ristianity

I've had 20 years experience treating people with depression and anxiety. You've had a lot of really good advice here so far already. I'll throw in my $.02 worth. Recognise that it is also "biochemical" when you become unwell with anxiety. The western world is rife with subtle nutritional deficiencies and they're a significant factor in nearly all cases of depression and anxiety. I strongly suggest you

1. take magnesium powder every night. Dissolve it in water. Most chemists sell it.
2. take zinc solution with it. Triple the recommended daily amount and do this for at least a month. (Forget zinc tablets or magnesium tablets, they're almost useless.)
3. Take a high dose multi vitamin B every day.
4. Take at least 5000 international units of vitamin D a day for a month.
5. eat lots of fresh fruit and fresh vegetables and avoid processed food. Take high doses of Omega threes
6. try to have a cardiovascular workout for at least half an hour every day.

Your brain will love you for it and you're anxiety and depression will improve dramatically.
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