Help through Deconversion
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
24-10-2013, 03:51 AM
RE: Help through Deconversion
You have to first realize that it doesnt really matter if God exists or not. As you say you have enjoyed some success in both your personal and professional life, but these are YOUR successes and can only be attributed to your own ambition and labor and should not be laid on the altar of any God

Like you I did think for a while that nothing really mattered and that because my death was inevitable, nothing I did in my life would count for anything in the long term. But I slowly came to realize that, like everyone else, my death will define my life - and it is up to me to make the most of every day I am alive. If I want to leave a legacy after I shuffle off this mortal coil, no amount of prayer or wishful thinking will make this happen

The secret to a happy life is lowering your expectations to the point where they are already met
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-10-2013, 06:26 AM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  Now, I'm facing a lot of huge, looming fears with deconversion.

To preface this post, know that I was always an atheist; I was never indoctrinated in any major sense and never had to struggle with deconversion, however, here's my 5 cents worth:

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  1. What if I'm wrong and there is still a God/Hell?

A common thing I have observed from Christians is that Yahweh/Jewsus/theTrollySpirit or whatever is that the deities is a just one; if it is truly just, then it shouldn't matter; you can't really be blamed justly; Plus god is omniscient, it knows everything; god would have known what path you'd taken even before it made you. (which begs the question as to whether god is actually all powerful or just a puppet to 'fate' like the rest of us as it would know it's own actions a head of time and be unable to change them... omniscient and omnipotent, I think not!)

Not only that, but with paradoxes like that above, the most logical conclusions are either: A) God does no exist as typically expressed as it is paradoxical, B) God exists, but cannot be comprehended or as a bonus to A, C) The paradoxical nature shows that Jewish/Christian/Islamic gods are entirely man made constructs. You have no reasonable fear in either case, what is left is the remnants of indoctrination.

In addition for Hell:




(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  2. How do I tell my entirely Christian family that I don't believe anymore?

That my friend, is entirely up to you; some will say "Come out to all! Be brave, you've nothing to hide!", others "Wait until you feel you are ready!". Me? I say; "Before you step out, learn, learn and learn more until you feel you can confidently and gently argue your case, your reasons, and then tell those who you are closest to and proceed until you feel you've done enough, but keep open, let 'them' know you that you are still the same person they cared for prior, keep open to them.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  4. (The Big One) I now feel like life is pointless. Recently I can't get excited about anything because my mind just jumps to "it won't matter and you're going to die eventually".

That is also up to you.

I stipulate that there is no meaning to life, no purpose. And yet; there is.
Some turn to god, some use benign terms like 'fate' and 'destiny' to explain why they exist and this given them a sense of purpose. Humans created such things to deal with 'purpose' behind their existence, to explain it away. And in this way, the purpose for a person is their's to decide; whether they admit it or not.
My purpose for continuing living is to learn; I assigned my own purpose in the pursuit of knowledge and the eventual setting of my own legacy to spread it to others.

I want you to do something: Think of a purpose for you; think of one that is, to you, worth living for. and every time your purpose falters, reconsider it and once more decide if it is worth living for. Forget that you will die; think only "is (your goal) worth living toward?" And make one that you feel is worth it.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  I've also developed a MASSIVE fear of my own mortality since this deconversion thing kicked into high-gear, due to A) being afraid of being wrong and there being an eternal punishment and B) feeling the brevity of life now that I've started really thinking about it.

There are currently approximately 41,000 Christian denominations; every single one of them in a away has a different deity and a different way of 'pleasing' it and a different hell. What is the likelihood of any one of them being solely correct as they so often claim? I'm not good at math, but I'g guess it's a less than 41,000 to one chance; they are all likely wrong, at least to some degree. Now think about all the other religions and all of their sects total throughout the entire history of Human kind. What is the likelihood that anybody ever got it right and knows the true god and how to not anger it? If you guessed "no chance" or "fuck all" you're on the right track; chances are, nobody every got it right; it god exists at all which is itself an near-impossibility.

And yeah, life is short, and often cruel; you only get it once so make the most out of it!

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-10-2013, 06:40 AM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  1. What if I'm wrong and there is still a God/Hell?
You are wrong. There is a God and hell is a real place.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  2. How do I tell my entirely Christian family that I don't believe anymore?
You don't. You tell a priest that you have committed a mortal sin and need absolution. He will baptise you and confirm you into the Catholic church.


(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  3. If I have children, how do I raise them? I know that my experiences in the church and the mission field had a huge part in defining who I am today, and while I don't believe in that God anymore, how do I raise my children with those values while dealing with a family that is Christian?
After your conversion to the Catholic faith you raise them as Catholic Christians and take them to mass every day. Trying to raise your children as Christians if you are not a Christian will not work. Sooner rather than later they will realise that you are a phony and will reject Christianity anyway. The sins of the fathers are visited upon the children, you are condemning your children and your children's children to lives of disbelief unless you repent

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  4. (The Big One) I now feel like life is pointless. Recently I can't get excited about anything because my mind just jumps to "it won't matter and you're going to die eventually". I've also developed a MASSIVE fear of my own mortality since this deconversion thing kicked into high-gear, due to A) being afraid of being wrong and there being an eternal punishment and B) feeling the brevity of life now that I've started really thinking about it.
A fear of God and a fear of hell is a good thing. This will save you if it causes you to repent and turn back to God. True atheists do not fear God or hell. The fact that you are suffering anxiety and fear is proof that you do believe in your heart even though your head is trying to convince you otherwise.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-10-2013, 07:14 AM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(24-10-2013 06:40 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  1. What if I'm wrong and there is still a God/Hell?
You are wrong. There is a God and hell is a real place.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  2. How do I tell my entirely Christian family that I don't believe anymore?
You don't. You tell a priest that you have committed a mortal sin and need absolution. He will baptise you and confirm you into the Catholic church.


(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  3. If I have children, how do I raise them? I know that my experiences in the church and the mission field had a huge part in defining who I am today, and while I don't believe in that God anymore, how do I raise my children with those values while dealing with a family that is Christian?
After your conversion to the Catholic faith you raise them as Catholic Christians and take them to mass every day. Trying to raise your children as Christians if you are not a Christian will not work. Sooner rather than later they will realise that you are a phony and will reject Christianity anyway. The sins of the fathers are visited upon the children, you are condemning your children and your children's children to lives of disbelief unless you repent

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  4. (The Big One) I now feel like life is pointless. Recently I can't get excited about anything because my mind just jumps to "it won't matter and you're going to die eventually". I've also developed a MASSIVE fear of my own mortality since this deconversion thing kicked into high-gear, due to A) being afraid of being wrong and there being an eternal punishment and B) feeling the brevity of life now that I've started really thinking about it.
A fear of God and a fear of hell is a good thing. This will save you if it causes you to repent and turn back to God. True atheists do not fear God or hell. The fact that you are suffering anxiety and fear is proof that you do believe in your heart even though your head is trying to convince you otherwise.

No.

To everyone else, thanks for your input. I've found the videos and links that have been posted to be especially helpful and very informative. I've done alot of reading on the issue of raising children without religion and such as well, and its helped to ease some of my anxiety regarding that.

Oh, and once again excubitor...

No.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Jasozz's post
24-10-2013, 07:24 AM (This post was last modified: 24-10-2013 07:31 AM by excubitor.)
RE: Help through Deconversion
(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  Hello everyone, my name is Jason. I'm going through what I consider to be a deconversion process and its really screwed up my life.
You have said it all here. No reason to go any further. From the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. You have screwed up your life by abandoning the faith, but it is not too late. You can turn to God and repent. I will help you. PM me. We are in a battle for souls here, and the devil is a master of deception.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  The fact of the matter is, around 8th Grade or so I got into that critical-thinking part of my life where I started to question alot more, and around this time I finally read the Bible cover to cover, and I kind of realized that it didn't really make sense to me anymore.
There is a key word here. "Critical". Being critical of the faith is a sin. The minute you found fault with the faith of Jesus Christ you sinned. Even thinking such a thought is a sin, to dwell on it is a grievous sin. To actually act upon it is a mortal sin unto death. Will you criticize God? Read the book of Job again please.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  I started to notice the discrepancies in the religion, such as asking myself how it is fair for God to judge me, who was raised in a loving Christian family, and also someone who grew up in a Hindu culture loving that religion, or in a Kiberan slum, knowing nothing but pain and sorrow for most of their life. How is that fair to begin with, coming from an all-loving God, and how is it fair for them to be judged equally on their eternal fate? There's many other things that I picked up on, but I'm not here to discuss Christianity or try to prove/disprove it.
It stands to reason and logic that the children of a father who has served the Lord all of his life and taught his children the ways of the scripture and to know God are greatly benefited by this training. They live godly lives. Not so the wicked. They teach their children lies and corrupt ways. Go back and read the psalms please. You dishonour your father because you have deliberately spurned this great blessing. You are prodigal. Return.

In the final analysis, we who believe are children of Abraham. Did not Jesus himself said. Should I give the children's bread to the dogs? But you have thrown the bread away. Shame.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  With doubt, came my engrained fear of Hell, and I told myself that I was just going through a phase, and kept going to church and tried not to think about it.
The fear of hell is a good thing. The only remedy is to repent, do penance and obey God.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  Through high school, my doubts grew and my attraction to church dwindled. By my sophomore year, I could no longer, with a clear conscience, say to someone that I believed in God. I graduated and went to college, and basically stopped going to church.
There you have it. You stopped going to church. This is a really common pattern. Christian children going off to college and being corrupted. Sometimes in life doubts arise. I can 't say that I have ever experienced them, but I know that if I stopped praying, stopped studying the scriptures, stopped going to church, started filling my head with false teachings of this world that cracks would start appearing in my faith. Satan is like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. He is on the lookout for weak Christians with cracking faith to move in and devour and destroy. That is what happened to you. You said it yourself "It screwed up my life"

It is because we understand the power of the devil to deceive and seduce that we pray fervently, surround ourselves with like-minded Christians, go to church.


(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  During this time I sort of blocked out the issue altogether.
Never a good idea. This is called backsliding. Shrinking into the darkness for fear of confronting the light of truth. If you were true and correct then why would it be necessary to avoid the issue. The fact that you felt compelled to avoid the issue is evidence that you are dead wrong on the issue and in your heart you know it and are unable to confront the horrific implications of your wrongness.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  The ONLY thing tethering me to Christianity was my fear of Hell and punishment, as well as the pain of losing or hurting my family if I became the ONLY non-Christian in our entire family, but that wasn't enough to make me want to keep going to church.
Anything that tethers you to Christianity is a good thing. There is a phenomenon that some Christian writers call the Dark winter of the soul. This is a rather awful test that God puts some Christians through to test their faith. It is where he does not seem to be around, where you have to cry out to him and there is nothing, but you persist and there is nothing, and you endure and eventually the light of joy shines upon you. This endurance shows our love for God, how we yearn for him and seek his face. Read the psalms I implore you. Make them your daily fare.
During these times of darkness the only thread that keeps you as a Christian is going to church and after you stop going to church the only thread is the fear of hell, and after you lose that you are adrift, the golden thread is broken and your soul is beyond saving. As you know. You are hear to appeal to help from men who are beyond saving because they have no fear. What a Godsend that you chanced upon me.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  After a rough breakup and some pretty deep depression, I thought connecting with a church might help me out a little, but unfortunately I found I could no longer get engaged with the church. I joined a Men's group that was all about being a better man/husband/etc., which I loved, because I was still CULTURALLY a Christian, and to this day I still deeply value the teachings of serving and loving others unconditionally, as well as a great deal of other non-deity-related teachings. This wasn't enough to light my spiritual flame though, and I stopped attending and went back to ignoring the issue.
Clearly this was not a Catholic church. The Catholic church is the one true apostolic Christian church. The other assemblies are not churches in the proper sense and have limited saving graces. I am confident that in your case, only the power of the graces of the Catholic church and the prayers of Mary the Mother of God will be adequate to bring you back. Pray the Rosary I implore you.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  Fast forward a year, and I've met an amazing girl. By far one of the sweetest and most amazing women I've ever met, with a heart for everyone. However, like the other girls I'd dated, she was an atheist. This didn't bother me at all, because I knew that I wasn't a hardcore Christian to begin with.
Hang on. This means that your former girlfriends were atheists and this bothered you. So it should. Did you not read the scriptures? Where it says not to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. Did you not read the scriptures how the many wives and concubines of Solomon from foreign lands with all their foreign Gods were able to seduce the heart of Solomon to depart from the Lord. Are you wiser than Solomon that you can play with fire without consequence?

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  // PROBLEM STARTS HERE //
No the problem started in high school with your critical thinking. From this point on what you are describing are the consequences of this formative sin, upon which your life has subsequently been based.
James 1:6 He that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  We were discussing something about creationism in schools, and something she said took a stab at Christianity, and I immediately went on the defense to defend Christianity, and realized I had nothing to say.
You had nothing to say because you had not prepared. It is necessary to sanctify yourself, read the scriptures, pray for strength, pray for the inspiriation of the Holy Spirit.
1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

To answer nothing is pathetic. Are you a man or a mouse?


(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  I love my family, and I love the church and the people I grew up with, and I have a servant's heart, and love volunteer work, disaster relief, you name it. Yet at that moment, I had no desire to defend the theistic parts of Christianity.
Unfortunately this is the pattern of secular society. They want to claim all the goods and benefits of Christianity without applying the disciplines of it. As a result the Christian underpinning of our society is weakening and those values which have a Christian origin are fading away. You don't have a servants heart. You have a cosy desire to serve men, but lack any desire to serve God who created men. What is that?

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  I had some of the worst anxiety attacks of my life the next few days, realizing that I didn't believe in Christianity anymore, wondering what was going on.
Was I going to Hell? Was there a Hell? How do I tell my family? Is this my girlfriend's fault? Is this my fault?
Not surpised about the anxiety attacks. Has any young man been given more than you. What a privilege to be brought up in a Christian home and then turn your back on it. Maybe you should go and hang yourself like a Judas, but better yet, why not be converted like the apostle Paul who betrayed Jesus three times and yet was restored through contrition and repentance. Start honouring your heritage instead of disgracing it.


(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  Its been about two months since then and I've done a great deal of reading and thinking on the matter.

I've concluded that I no longer accept the Bible as truth, and haven't for a long time. While there are some great lessons in the Bible, overall, I do not believe in the Christian doctrine.
What a load of old cobblers. You want to go and bonk atheist girls because you are to ashamed to corrupt Christian ones.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-10-2013, 07:30 AM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(24-10-2013 07:24 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  Hello everyone, my name is Jason. I'm going through what I consider to be a deconversion process and its really screwed up my life.
You have said it all here. No reason to go any further. From the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. You have screwed up your life by abandoning the faith, but it is not too late. You can turn to God and repent. I will help you. PM me. We are in a battle for souls here, and the devil is a master of deception.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  The fact of the matter is, around 8th Grade or so I got into that critical-thinking part of my life where I started to question alot more, and around this time I finally read the Bible cover to cover, and I kind of realized that it didn't really make sense to me anymore.
There is a key word here. "Critical". Being critical of the faith is a sin. The minute you found fault with the faith of Jesus Christ you sinned. Even thinking such a thought is a sin, to dwell on it is a grievous sin. To actually act upon it is a mortal sin unto death. Will you criticize God? Read the book of Job again please.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  I started to notice the discrepancies in the religion, such as asking myself how it is fair for God to judge me, who was raised in a loving Christian family, and also someone who grew up in a Hindu culture loving that religion, or in a Kiberan slum, knowing nothing but pain and sorrow for most of their life. How is that fair to begin with, coming from an all-loving God, and how is it fair for them to be judged equally on their eternal fate? There's many other things that I picked up on, but I'm not here to discuss Christianity or try to prove/disprove it.
It stands to reason and logic that the children of a father who has served the Lord all of his life and taught his children the ways of the scripture and to know God are greatly benefited by this training. They live godly lives. Not so the wicked. They teach their children lies and corrupt ways. Go back and read the psalms please. You dishonour your father because you have deliberately spurned this great blessing. You are prodigal. Return.

In the final analysis, we who believe are children of Abraham. Did not Jesus himself said. Should I give the children's bread to the dogs? But you have thrown the bread away. Shame.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  With doubt, came my engrained fear of Hell, and I told myself that I was just going through a phase, and kept going to church and tried not to think about it.
The fear of hell is a good thing. The only remedy is to repent, do penance and obey God.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  Through high school, my doubts grew and my attraction to church dwindled. By my sophomore year, I could no longer, with a clear conscience, say to someone that I believed in God. I graduated and went to college, and basically stopped going to church.
There you have it. You stopped going to church. This is a really common pattern. Christian children going off to college and being corrupted. Sometimes in life doubts arise. I can 't say that I have ever experienced them, but I know that if I stopped praying, stopped studying the scriptures, stopped going to church, started filling my head with false teachings of this world that cracks would start appearing in my faith. Satan is like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. He is on the lookout for weak Christians with cracking faith to move in and devour and destroy. That is what happened to you. You said it yourself "It screwed up my life"

It is because we understand the power of the devil to deceive and seduce that we pray fervently, surround ourselves with like-minded Christians, go to church.


(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  During this time I sort of blocked out the issue altogether.
Never a good idea. This is called backsliding. Shrinking into the darkness for fear of confronting the light of truth. If you were true and correct then why would it be necessary to avoid the issue. The fact that you felt compelled to avoid the issue is evidence that you are dead wrong on the issue and in your heart you know it and are unable to confront the horrific implications of your wrongness.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  The ONLY thing tethering me to Christianity was my fear of Hell and punishment, as well as the pain of losing or hurting my family if I became the ONLY non-Christian in our entire family, but that wasn't enough to make me want to keep going to church.
Anything that tethers you to Christianity is a good thing. There is a phenomenon that some Christian writers call the Dark winter of the soul. This is a rather awful test that God puts some Christians through to test their faith. It is where he does not seem to be around, where you have to cry out to him and there is nothing, but you persist and there is nothing, and you endure and eventually the light of joy shines upon you. This endures shows our love for God, how we yearn for him and seek his face. Read the psalms I implore you. Make them your daily fare.
During these times of darkness the only thread that keeps you as a Christian is going to church and after you stop going to church the only thread is the fear of hell, and after you lose that you are adrift, the golden thread is broken and your soul is beyond saving.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  After a rough breakup and some pretty deep depression, I thought connecting with a church might help me out a little, but unfortunately I found I could no longer get engaged with the church. I joined a Men's group that was all about being a better man/husband/etc., which I loved, because I was still CULTURALLY a Christian, and to this day I still deeply value the teachings of serving and loving others unconditionally, as well as a great deal of other non-deity-related teachings. This wasn't enough to light my spiritual flame though, and I stopped attending and went back to ignoring the issue.
Clearly this was not a Catholic church. The Catholic church is the one true apostolic Christian church. The other assemblies are not churches in the proper sense and have limited saving graces. I am confident that in your case, only the power of the graces of the Catholic church and the prayers of Mary the Mother of God will be adequate to bring you back. Pray the Rosary I implore you.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  Fast forward a year, and I've met an amazing girl. By far one of the sweetest and most amazing women I've ever met, with a heart for everyone. However, like the other girls I'd dated, she was an atheist. This didn't bother me at all, because I knew that I wasn't a hardcore Christian to begin with.
Hang on. This means that your former girlfriends were atheists and this bothered you. So it should. Did you not read the scriptures? Where it says not to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. Did you not read the scriptures how the many wives and concubines of Solomon from foreign lands with all their foreign Gods were able to seduce the heart of Solomon to depart from the Lord. Are you wiser than Solomon that you can play with fire without consequence?

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  // PROBLEM STARTS HERE //
No the problem started in high school with your critical thinking. From this point on what you are describing are the consequences of this formative sin, upon which your life has subsequently been based.
James 1:6 He that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  We were discussing something about creationism in schools, and something she said took a stab at Christianity, and I immediately went on the defense to defend Christianity, and realized I had nothing to say.
You had nothing to say because you had not prepared. It is necessary to sanctify yourself, read the scriptures, pray for strength, pray for the inspiriation of the Holy Spirit.
1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

To answer nothing is pathetic. Are you a man or a mouse.


(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  I love my family, and I love the church and the people I grew up with, and I have a servant's heart, and love volunteer work, disaster relief, you name it. Yet at that moment, I had no desire to defend the theistic parts of Christianity.
Unfortunately this is the pattern of secular society. They want to claim all the goods and benefits of Christianity without applying the disciplines of it. As a result the Christian underpinning of our society is weakening and those values which have a Christian origin are fading away. You don't have a servants heart. You have a cosy desire to serve men, but lack any desire to serve God who created men. What is that?

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  I had some of the worst anxiety attacks of my life the next few days, realizing that I didn't believe in Christianity anymore, wondering what was going on.
Was I going to Hell? Was there a Hell? How do I tell my family? Is this my girlfriend's fault? Is this my fault?
Not surpised about the anxiety attacks. Has any young man been given more than you. What a privilege to be brought up in a Christian home and then turn your back on it. Maybe you should go and hang yourself like a Judas, but better yet, why not be converted like the apostle Paul was who betrayed Jesus three times and start honouring your heritage instead of disgracing it.


(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  Its been about two months since then and I've done a great deal of reading and thinking on the matter.

I've concluded that I no longer accept the Bible as truth, and haven't for a long time. While there are some great lessons in the Bible, overall, I do not believe in the Christian doctrine.
What a load of old cobblers. You want to go and bonk atheist girls because you are to ashamed to corrupt Christian ones.

There are so many things wrong with everything you're saying, but this is not a thread to discuss or try and convert me to a faith. If you can't stick to the topics, then stay out.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like Jasozz's post
24-10-2013, 07:38 AM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(24-10-2013 07:14 AM)Jasozz Wrote:  
(24-10-2013 06:40 AM)excubitor Wrote:  You are wrong. There is a God and hell is a real place.

You don't. You tell a priest that you have committed a mortal sin and need absolution. He will baptise you and confirm you into the Catholic church.


After your conversion to the Catholic faith you raise them as Catholic Christians and take them to mass every day. Trying to raise your children as Christians if you are not a Christian will not work. Sooner rather than later they will realise that you are a phony and will reject Christianity anyway. The sins of the fathers are visited upon the children, you are condemning your children and your children's children to lives of disbelief unless you repent

A fear of God and a fear of hell is a good thing. This will save you if it causes you to repent and turn back to God. True atheists do not fear God or hell. The fact that you are suffering anxiety and fear is proof that you do believe in your heart even though your head is trying to convince you otherwise.

No.

To everyone else, thanks for your input. I've found the videos and links that have been posted to be especially helpful and very informative. I've done alot of reading on the issue of raising children without religion and such as well, and its helped to ease some of my anxiety regarding that.

Oh, and once again excubitor...

No.
Well of course I am not surprised. You are coming here for help and comfort from atheists who you do not even know, while you spurn your church and family. Good one. That shows your conscious intent. But there is a heart and a motivation that is even deeper. You know that I understand you because I am wise. Have another anxiety attack mate. That will show you what is in your inmost heartfelt motivations. And if you don't make the right choice after this analysis then line yourself up for psychosis.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-10-2013, 07:42 AM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(24-10-2013 07:24 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  Hello everyone, my name is Jason. I'm going through what I consider to be a deconversion process and its really screwed up my life.
You have said it all here. No reason to go any further. From the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. You have screwed up your life by abandoning the faith, but it is not too late. You can turn to God and repent. I will help you. PM me. We are in a battle for souls here, and the devil is a master of deception.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  The fact of the matter is, around 8th Grade or so I got into that critical-thinking part of my life where I started to question alot more, and around this time I finally read the Bible cover to cover, and I kind of realized that it didn't really make sense to me anymore.
There is a key word here. "Critical". Being critical of the faith is a sin. The minute you found fault with the faith of Jesus Christ you sinned. Even thinking such a thought is a sin, to dwell on it is a grievous sin. To actually act upon it is a mortal sin unto death. Will you criticize God? Read the book of Job again please.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  I started to notice the discrepancies in the religion, such as asking myself how it is fair for God to judge me, who was raised in a loving Christian family, and also someone who grew up in a Hindu culture loving that religion, or in a Kiberan slum, knowing nothing but pain and sorrow for most of their life. How is that fair to begin with, coming from an all-loving God, and how is it fair for them to be judged equally on their eternal fate? There's many other things that I picked up on, but I'm not here to discuss Christianity or try to prove/disprove it.
It stands to reason and logic that the children of a father who has served the Lord all of his life and taught his children the ways of the scripture and to know God are greatly benefited by this training. They live godly lives. Not so the wicked. They teach their children lies and corrupt ways. Go back and read the psalms please. You dishonour your father because you have deliberately spurned this great blessing. You are prodigal. Return.

In the final analysis, we who believe are children of Abraham. Did not Jesus himself said. Should I give the children's bread to the dogs? But you have thrown the bread away. Shame.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  With doubt, came my engrained fear of Hell, and I told myself that I was just going through a phase, and kept going to church and tried not to think about it.
The fear of hell is a good thing. The only remedy is to repent, do penance and obey God.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  Through high school, my doubts grew and my attraction to church dwindled. By my sophomore year, I could no longer, with a clear conscience, say to someone that I believed in God. I graduated and went to college, and basically stopped going to church.
There you have it. You stopped going to church. This is a really common pattern. Christian children going off to college and being corrupted. Sometimes in life doubts arise. I can 't say that I have ever experienced them, but I know that if I stopped praying, stopped studying the scriptures, stopped going to church, started filling my head with false teachings of this world that cracks would start appearing in my faith. Satan is like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. He is on the lookout for weak Christians with cracking faith to move in and devour and destroy. That is what happened to you. You said it yourself "It screwed up my life"

It is because we understand the power of the devil to deceive and seduce that we pray fervently, surround ourselves with like-minded Christians, go to church.


(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  During this time I sort of blocked out the issue altogether.
Never a good idea. This is called backsliding. Shrinking into the darkness for fear of confronting the light of truth. If you were true and correct then why would it be necessary to avoid the issue. The fact that you felt compelled to avoid the issue is evidence that you are dead wrong on the issue and in your heart you know it and are unable to confront the horrific implications of your wrongness.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  The ONLY thing tethering me to Christianity was my fear of Hell and punishment, as well as the pain of losing or hurting my family if I became the ONLY non-Christian in our entire family, but that wasn't enough to make me want to keep going to church.
Anything that tethers you to Christianity is a good thing. There is a phenomenon that some Christian writers call the Dark winter of the soul. This is a rather awful test that God puts some Christians through to test their faith. It is where he does not seem to be around, where you have to cry out to him and there is nothing, but you persist and there is nothing, and you endure and eventually the light of joy shines upon you. This endures shows our love for God, how we yearn for him and seek his face. Read the psalms I implore you. Make them your daily fare.
During these times of darkness the only thread that keeps you as a Christian is going to church and after you stop going to church the only thread is the fear of hell, and after you lose that you are adrift, the golden thread is broken and your soul is beyond saving.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  After a rough breakup and some pretty deep depression, I thought connecting with a church might help me out a little, but unfortunately I found I could no longer get engaged with the church. I joined a Men's group that was all about being a better man/husband/etc., which I loved, because I was still CULTURALLY a Christian, and to this day I still deeply value the teachings of serving and loving others unconditionally, as well as a great deal of other non-deity-related teachings. This wasn't enough to light my spiritual flame though, and I stopped attending and went back to ignoring the issue.
Clearly this was not a Catholic church. The Catholic church is the one true apostolic Christian church. The other assemblies are not churches in the proper sense and have limited saving graces. I am confident that in your case, only the power of the graces of the Catholic church and the prayers of Mary the Mother of God will be adequate to bring you back. Pray the Rosary I implore you.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  Fast forward a year, and I've met an amazing girl. By far one of the sweetest and most amazing women I've ever met, with a heart for everyone. However, like the other girls I'd dated, she was an atheist. This didn't bother me at all, because I knew that I wasn't a hardcore Christian to begin with.
Hang on. This means that your former girlfriends were atheists and this bothered you. So it should. Did you not read the scriptures? Where it says not to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. Did you not read the scriptures how the many wives and concubines of Solomon from foreign lands with all their foreign Gods were able to seduce the heart of Solomon to depart from the Lord. Are you wiser than Solomon that you can play with fire without consequence?

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  // PROBLEM STARTS HERE //
No the problem started in high school with your critical thinking. From this point on what you are describing are the consequences of this formative sin, upon which your life has subsequently been based.
James 1:6 He that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  We were discussing something about creationism in schools, and something she said took a stab at Christianity, and I immediately went on the defense to defend Christianity, and realized I had nothing to say.
You had nothing to say because you had not prepared. It is necessary to sanctify yourself, read the scriptures, pray for strength, pray for the inspiriation of the Holy Spirit.
1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

To answer nothing is pathetic. Are you a man or a mouse.


(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  I love my family, and I love the church and the people I grew up with, and I have a servant's heart, and love volunteer work, disaster relief, you name it. Yet at that moment, I had no desire to defend the theistic parts of Christianity.
Unfortunately this is the pattern of secular society. They want to claim all the goods and benefits of Christianity without applying the disciplines of it. As a result the Christian underpinning of our society is weakening and those values which have a Christian origin are fading away. You don't have a servants heart. You have a cosy desire to serve men, but lack any desire to serve God who created men. What is that?

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  I had some of the worst anxiety attacks of my life the next few days, realizing that I didn't believe in Christianity anymore, wondering what was going on.
Was I going to Hell? Was there a Hell? How do I tell my family? Is this my girlfriend's fault? Is this my fault?
Not surpised about the anxiety attacks. Has any young man been given more than you. What a privilege to be brought up in a Christian home and then turn your back on it. Maybe you should go and hang yourself like a Judas, but better yet, why not be converted like the apostle Paul was who betrayed Jesus three times and start honouring your heritage instead of disgracing it.


(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  Its been about two months since then and I've done a great deal of reading and thinking on the matter.

I've concluded that I no longer accept the Bible as truth, and haven't for a long time. While there are some great lessons in the Bible, overall, I do not believe in the Christian doctrine.
What a load of old cobblers. You want to go and bonk atheist girls because you are to ashamed to corrupt Christian ones.

For crying out loud, theists really should not be allowed in deconversion threads!

Jason, it took years and years for people to drum that stuff into you.

It isn't going to disappear at the snap of a finger.

You were born an atheist, then people spent years and years drumming crazy stories into your head. Mostly because they figure no one can be a good person without being deadly afraid of some vengeful, supernatural enforcer watching them every minute. These people think that we are born bad and evil.

That is just not so. Empathy is a very evolved trait of ours, and most people are basically good.

To me, that is the crucial, underlying philosophy of the religious - that all people are evil and need to be brought in line.

So they invented an even more cruel god, so that all of us evil creatures can live in fear of offending someone more evil than us.

Anyway, just give yourself time, give yourself permission to explore in all directions. Things will fall into place. Indoctrination is powerful, but free thinking will lead you to the truth.

[Image: dobie.png]

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Dom's post
24-10-2013, 07:42 AM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(24-10-2013 07:30 AM)Jasozz Wrote:  
(24-10-2013 07:24 AM)excubitor Wrote:  You have said it all here. No reason to go any further. From the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. You have screwed up your life by abandoning the faith, but it is not too late. You can turn to God and repent. I will help you. PM me. We are in a battle for souls here, and the devil is a master of deception.

There is a key word here. "Critical". Being critical of the faith is a sin. The minute you found fault with the faith of Jesus Christ you sinned. Even thinking such a thought is a sin, to dwell on it is a grievous sin. To actually act upon it is a mortal sin unto death. Will you criticize God? Read the book of Job again please.

It stands to reason and logic that the children of a father who has served the Lord all of his life and taught his children the ways of the scripture and to know God are greatly benefited by this training. They live godly lives. Not so the wicked. They teach their children lies and corrupt ways. Go back and read the psalms please. You dishonour your father because you have deliberately spurned this great blessing. You are prodigal. Return.

In the final analysis, we who believe are children of Abraham. Did not Jesus himself said. Should I give the children's bread to the dogs? But you have thrown the bread away. Shame.

The fear of hell is a good thing. The only remedy is to repent, do penance and obey God.

There you have it. You stopped going to church. This is a really common pattern. Christian children going off to college and being corrupted. Sometimes in life doubts arise. I can 't say that I have ever experienced them, but I know that if I stopped praying, stopped studying the scriptures, stopped going to church, started filling my head with false teachings of this world that cracks would start appearing in my faith. Satan is like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. He is on the lookout for weak Christians with cracking faith to move in and devour and destroy. That is what happened to you. You said it yourself "It screwed up my life"

It is because we understand the power of the devil to deceive and seduce that we pray fervently, surround ourselves with like-minded Christians, go to church.


Never a good idea. This is called backsliding. Shrinking into the darkness for fear of confronting the light of truth. If you were true and correct then why would it be necessary to avoid the issue. The fact that you felt compelled to avoid the issue is evidence that you are dead wrong on the issue and in your heart you know it and are unable to confront the horrific implications of your wrongness.

Anything that tethers you to Christianity is a good thing. There is a phenomenon that some Christian writers call the Dark winter of the soul. This is a rather awful test that God puts some Christians through to test their faith. It is where he does not seem to be around, where you have to cry out to him and there is nothing, but you persist and there is nothing, and you endure and eventually the light of joy shines upon you. This endures shows our love for God, how we yearn for him and seek his face. Read the psalms I implore you. Make them your daily fare.
During these times of darkness the only thread that keeps you as a Christian is going to church and after you stop going to church the only thread is the fear of hell, and after you lose that you are adrift, the golden thread is broken and your soul is beyond saving.

Clearly this was not a Catholic church. The Catholic church is the one true apostolic Christian church. The other assemblies are not churches in the proper sense and have limited saving graces. I am confident that in your case, only the power of the graces of the Catholic church and the prayers of Mary the Mother of God will be adequate to bring you back. Pray the Rosary I implore you.

Hang on. This means that your former girlfriends were atheists and this bothered you. So it should. Did you not read the scriptures? Where it says not to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. Did you not read the scriptures how the many wives and concubines of Solomon from foreign lands with all their foreign Gods were able to seduce the heart of Solomon to depart from the Lord. Are you wiser than Solomon that you can play with fire without consequence?

No the problem started in high school with your critical thinking. From this point on what you are describing are the consequences of this formative sin, upon which your life has subsequently been based.
James 1:6 He that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

You had nothing to say because you had not prepared. It is necessary to sanctify yourself, read the scriptures, pray for strength, pray for the inspiriation of the Holy Spirit.
1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

To answer nothing is pathetic. Are you a man or a mouse.


Unfortunately this is the pattern of secular society. They want to claim all the goods and benefits of Christianity without applying the disciplines of it. As a result the Christian underpinning of our society is weakening and those values which have a Christian origin are fading away. You don't have a servants heart. You have a cosy desire to serve men, but lack any desire to serve God who created men. What is that?

Not surpised about the anxiety attacks. Has any young man been given more than you. What a privilege to be brought up in a Christian home and then turn your back on it. Maybe you should go and hang yourself like a Judas, but better yet, why not be converted like the apostle Paul was who betrayed Jesus three times and start honouring your heritage instead of disgracing it.


What a load of old cobblers. You want to go and bonk atheist girls because you are to ashamed to corrupt Christian ones.

There are so many things wrong with everything you're saying, but this is not a thread to discuss or try and convert me to a faith. If you can't stick to the topics, then stay out.
You know I have virtually no respect for atheists, but if there is one thing I hate with a perfect hatred it is apostates. People who have been given pearls of great price that have thrown them to the pigs and chosen to clothe themselves with pig shit.
If my words have not pricked you in the heart and moved you to repentance then you are lost and destined for hell. I will not pray for you. Goodbye. You are on my ignore list.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-10-2013, 07:44 AM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(24-10-2013 07:38 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(24-10-2013 07:14 AM)Jasozz Wrote:  No.

To everyone else, thanks for your input. I've found the videos and links that have been posted to be especially helpful and very informative. I've done alot of reading on the issue of raising children without religion and such as well, and its helped to ease some of my anxiety regarding that.

Oh, and once again excubitor...

No.
Well of course I am not surprised. You are coming here for help and comfort from atheists who you do not even know, while you spurn your church and family. Good one. That shows your conscious intent. But there is a heart and a motivation that is even deeper. You know that I understand you because I am wise. Have another anxiety attack mate. That will show you what is in your inmost heartfelt motivations. And if you don't make the right choice after this analysis then line yourself up for psychosis.

Yes. And I got help and comfort from people who I don't even know, and who have no reason to want to help me, but did anyway.

The only person here who has taken to insulting me and telling me to "hang myself" would be you.

Again, stay on topic, or stay out.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: