Help through Deconversion
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24-10-2013, 09:23 AM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(23-10-2013 06:28 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  And wtf, no point? What about "amazing girl" and "potential kids?" People must create their own meaning. Those that claim "god is the point" are doing the same thing, creating their own meaning, only they're doing it with training wheels. It's like they're using a coloring book whereas the atheist uses a sketch book.

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24-10-2013, 09:23 AM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(24-10-2013 09:21 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  
(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  1. What if I'm wrong and there is still a God/Hell?

Which god, which hell? Think of all the religions that exist and have existed. I'll bet you didn't spend much time worrying about them. You were taught to believe only one of many different religions. Give it time; it's hard to change your worldview!

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  2. How do I tell my entirely Christian family that I don't believe anymore?

I have no advice here, other than to be patient and (in my opinion) avoid debating theology. If they ask why you don't believe, tell them. If they try to debate with you, simply explain that you understand why they still believe, but it no longer works for you.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  3. If I have children, how do I raise them? I know that my experiences in the church and the mission field had a huge part in defining who I am today, and while I don't believe in that God anymore, how do I raise my children with those values while dealing with a family that is Christian?

All children are born atheists. You raise them the way you were raised, minus the god-story. Why did you do good? To get into heaven? Or to make the world a better place for those living in it? I know which answer I'd pick Smile

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  4. (The Big One) I now feel like life is pointless. Recently I can't get excited about anything because my mind just jumps to "it won't matter and you're going to die eventually". I've also developed a MASSIVE fear of my own mortality since this deconversion thing kicked into high-gear, due to A) being afraid of being wrong and there being an eternal punishment and B) feeling the brevity of life now that I've started really thinking about it.

The thing that was making you feel purpose wasn't real. You're now shifting towards living your life for a real reason: it's the only one you have. Take risks, make friends, travel, and soak in every incredible moment. Be happy that you will no longer waste time in this life dreaming of another life.

Excubitor, where can I find these amazing drugs you're on? Hobo

Thanks, I relate entirely to your suggestion of telling my family that I understand WHY they believe, and I do. I hope that they can understand and don't take my deconversion as an attack on them or our family.
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24-10-2013, 09:30 AM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(24-10-2013 09:23 AM)Jasozz Wrote:  
(24-10-2013 09:21 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  Which god, which hell? Think of all the religions that exist and have existed. I'll bet you didn't spend much time worrying about them. You were taught to believe only one of many different religions. Give it time; it's hard to change your worldview!


I have no advice here, other than to be patient and (in my opinion) avoid debating theology. If they ask why you don't believe, tell them. If they try to debate with you, simply explain that you understand why they still believe, but it no longer works for you.


All children are born atheists. You raise them the way you were raised, minus the god-story. Why did you do good? To get into heaven? Or to make the world a better place for those living in it? I know which answer I'd pick Smile


The thing that was making you feel purpose wasn't real. You're now shifting towards living your life for a real reason: it's the only one you have. Take risks, make friends, travel, and soak in every incredible moment. Be happy that you will no longer waste time in this life dreaming of another life.

Excubitor, where can I find these amazing drugs you're on? Hobo

Thanks, I relate entirely to your suggestion of telling my family that I understand WHY they believe, and I do. I hope that they can understand and don't take my deconversion as an attack on them or our family.

Before you tell, you need to let things get sorted in your own head. There is no reason to hurry things... take your time.

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24-10-2013, 09:30 AM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(24-10-2013 09:30 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(24-10-2013 09:23 AM)Jasozz Wrote:  Thanks, I relate entirely to your suggestion of telling my family that I understand WHY they believe, and I do. I hope that they can understand and don't take my deconversion as an attack on them or our family.

Before you tell, you need to let things get sorted in your own head. There is no reason to hurry things... take your time.

Oh yeah, no, I have no intention of doing so any time soon. Maybe at all, I just see it as nothing but a catastrophe at the moment.
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24-10-2013, 09:49 AM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(24-10-2013 07:42 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(24-10-2013 07:30 AM)Jasozz Wrote:  There are so many things wrong with everything you're saying, but this is not a thread to discuss or try and convert me to a faith. If you can't stick to the topics, then stay out.
You know I have virtually no respect for atheists, but if there is one thing I hate with a perfect hatred it is apostates. People who have been given pearls of great price that have thrown them to the pigs and chosen to clothe themselves with pig shit.
If my words have not pricked you in the heart and moved you to repentance then you are lost and destined for hell. I will not pray for you. Goodbye. You are on my ignore list.

You know what the Bible, Torah and Qur'an say about what to do with apostates... What are you waiting for?

Remember... your hand must strike the first blow.

Unless you're prepared to put your money where your mouth is... shut the fuck up.

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24-10-2013, 09:51 AM
RE: Help through Deconversion
Welcome to a safe place. I see myself in your story so much, I do not know where to begin. I am sure there are many others who feel as I do.

You are not alone.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  1. What if I'm wrong and there is still a God/Hell?

I am so sorry. You are a victim of a religious cycle of guilt and fear. I am afraid you have been abused.

1. You were indoctrinated with religious beliefs as a child without any evidence presented to support those teachings.

2. You were fed the idea of "Hell" and given a description of its horrors.

3. Once the appropriate fear of Hell had taken hold, you were told that the only way to live without fear of it, is to do everything that the religion demands, unquestioning.

4. You were given the sickness and then told the only cure was the source of the sickness.

I am not saying that your parents did this to you knowingly. Most parents do so because it was done to them, and they genuinely believe it to be true.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  2. How do I tell my entirely Christian family that I don't believe anymore?

This is just my opinion, but I think you should take your time with this one. Take as much time as you need to do this in the best possible way.

I told my family immediately upon abandoning my faith, and I was not treated well. I can't help but wonder if it could have gone better if I had waited and taken more care in telling them.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  3. If I have children, how do I raise them? I know that my experiences in the church and the mission field had a huge part in defining who I am today, and while I don't believe in that God anymore, how do I raise my children with those values while dealing with a family that is Christian?

I wouldn't worry too much about this until you have sorted your own feelings and beliefs out. You cannot even think to raise someone else, until you have passed through your deconversion.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  4. (The Big One) I now feel like life is pointless. Recently I can't get excited about anything because my mind just jumps to "it won't matter and you're going to die eventually".

This is a natural consequence of your childhood indoctrination. Again, I am so sorry. I promise you, if you had been raised without any religion at all, you would not feel this way. You were told that religion and God are the only purpose to life, and nothing else matters. It follows that if your faith is failing, you will feel purposeless.

I have made it though this stage myself, and I cannot tell you enough how much happier things are on the other side.

I am married to the woman of my dreams, and her love is worth even the shortest half life. I am free of guilt, shame, fear, and pain! I live my own life, and do what I think is right. I don't have to worry about what others say I should do, or what they tell me that "God" says. I know what is right, and I know myself.

If you have believed all this time, but it turns out that you were wrong, doesn't that mean that you were happy believing a lie? Your religion was wrong all along, and yet you found purpose in your life? What is so different from that now? What has really changed after all?

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  I've also developed a MASSIVE fear of my own mortality since this deconversion thing kicked into high-gear, due to A) being afraid of being wrong and there being an eternal punishment and B) feeling the brevity of life now that I've started really thinking about it.

Humility does not come easily to anyone. Knowing that we will age and die is not an easy thing. Facing it with courage and love is not an easy thing. However, we do it. We face it.

I sometimes joke with my religious friends that I have far more hope and courage than they do, since I get up every day and go to work even though I don't believe this life has any prescribed purpose.

I live for myself, because the taste of good food, the touch of my wife, and the thought of one day having children makes me happy. The fun of posting here online, of playing games, of working to make other's lives more comfortable and happy, its all worth sticking around for.

I can't say for sure, since it's your life, but you might find that much of what you loved as a believer is still available to you as a non-believer. You can do service for the needy. You can love your family. You can treat others with love and kindness. You can follow your interests and career with passion. You can die with honor and the knowledge that you will live on in the minds and hearts of those who loved you.

Breathe in and out. Read everything you can get your hands on. Don't take anyone's word as fact without studying it yourself. Question, question, question.

From one deconverted Christian to another, you can do this, and life gets a whole lot better.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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24-10-2013, 09:55 AM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(24-10-2013 09:51 AM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  Welcome to a safe place. I see myself in your story so much, I do not know where to begin. I am sure there are many others who feel as I do.

You are not alone.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  1. What if I'm wrong and there is still a God/Hell?

I am so sorry. You are a victim of a religious cycle of guilt and fear. I am afraid you have been abused.

1. You were indoctrinated with religious beliefs as a child without any evidence presented to support those teachings.

2. You were fed the idea of "Hell" and given a description of its horrors.

3. Once the appropriate fear of Hell had taken hold, you were told that the only way to live without fear of it, is to do everything that the religion demands, unquestioning.

4. You were given the sickness and then told the only cure was the source of the sickness.

I am not saying that your parents did this to you knowingly. Most parents do so because it was done to them, and they genuinely believe it to be true.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  2. How do I tell my entirely Christian family that I don't believe anymore?

This is just my opinion, but I think you should take your time with this one. Take as much time as you need to do this in the best possible way.

I told my family immediately upon abandoning my faith, and I was not treated well. I can't help but wonder if it could have gone better if I had waited and taken more care in telling them.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  3. If I have children, how do I raise them? I know that my experiences in the church and the mission field had a huge part in defining who I am today, and while I don't believe in that God anymore, how do I raise my children with those values while dealing with a family that is Christian?

I wouldn't worry too much about this until you have sorted your own feelings and beliefs out. You cannot even think to raise someone else, until you have passed through your deconversion.

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  4. (The Big One) I now feel like life is pointless. Recently I can't get excited about anything because my mind just jumps to "it won't matter and you're going to die eventually".

This is a natural consequence of your childhood indoctrination. Again, I am so sorry. I promise you, if you had been raised without any religion at all, you would not feel this way. You were told that religion and God are the only purpose to life, and nothing else matters. It follows that if your faith is failing, you will feel purposeless.

I have made it though this stage myself, and I cannot tell you enough how much happier things are on the other side.

I am married to the woman of my dreams, and her love is worth even the shortest half life. I am free of guilt, shame, fear, and pain! I live my own life, and do what I think is right. I don't have to worry about what others say I should do, or what they tell me that "God" says. I know what is right, and I know myself.

If you have believed all this time, but it turns out that you were wrong, doesn't that mean that you were happy believing a lie? Your religion was wrong all along, and yet you found purpose in your life? What is so different from that now? What has really changed after all?

(23-10-2013 06:06 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  I've also developed a MASSIVE fear of my own mortality since this deconversion thing kicked into high-gear, due to A) being afraid of being wrong and there being an eternal punishment and B) feeling the brevity of life now that I've started really thinking about it.

Humility does not come easily to anyone. Knowing that we will age and die is not an easy thing. Facing it with courage and love is not an easy thing. However, we do it. We face it.

I sometimes joke with my religious friends that I have far more hope and courage than they do, since I get up every day and go to work even though I don't believe this life has any prescribed purpose.

I live for myself, because the taste of good food, the touch of my wife, and the thought of one day having children makes me happy. The fun of posting here online, of playing games, of working to make other's lives more comfortable and happy, its all worth sticking around for.

I can't say for sure, since it's your life, but you might find that much of what you loved as a believer is still available to you as a non-believer. You can do service for the needy. You can love your family. You can treat others with love and kindness. You can follow your interests and career with passion. You can die with honor and the knowledge that you will live on in the minds and hearts of those who loved you.

Breathe in and out. Read everything you can get your hands on. Don't take anyone's word as fact without studying it yourself. Question, question, question.

From one deconverted Christian to another, you can do this, and life gets a whole lot better.

Thanks. It does sound like you've been here before.

Im trying my best to take comfort in the things I have in life, but its just really tough to do so when I see a whole lot of strife coming up soon with this whole process.

I really appreciate your sympathy and its great to see that you came out of it so well. Smile
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24-10-2013, 10:06 AM
RE: Help through Deconversion
This thread probably should have been posted in the support section... not being anal, but its much more strictly moderated against knob heads like Excubitor.

"Coming out" as an atheist is probably the trickiest part... you say your girlfriend is an atheist, so she'll be the best person to support you. And of course, you can always get support from people on here.

The thing I'd be most worried about is your family holding your girlfriend responsible... But only you know if they'd react like that.

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24-10-2013, 10:10 AM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(24-10-2013 10:06 AM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  This thread probably should have been posted in the support section... not being anal, but its much more strictly moderated against knob heads like Excubitor.

"Coming out" as an atheist is probably the trickiest part... you say your girlfriend is an atheist, so she'll be the best person to support you. And of course, you can always get support from people on here.

The thing I'd be most worried about is your family holding your girlfriend responsible... But only you know if they'd react like that.

I'm sure that my family has caught on to my distancing from the church; something that's happened over the course of over 5 years. I doubt my parents would blame her, but Im sure there are some who will undoubtedly quote "unequal yoking" being my downfall, to which my reply is that when I broke up with my last girlfriend, I turned to the church to try and dig myself out of my depression, and no amount of prayer helped, the church just wanted my money, and I never felt like anyone cared there. Then I went to Applebees and had a beer with my friends and we sorted it out through conversation and just being there for each other.

I'd say human kindness won out in this case.
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24-10-2013, 10:20 AM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(24-10-2013 06:40 AM)excubitor Wrote:  You are wrong. There is a God and hell is a real place.

I might as well contend that Narnia is a real place, and that Aslan is real. I have the same amount of evidence as our cheerful friend "Excubitor" here.

I suppose he is just doing the "Christian" thing though, you know, throwing the fear of Hell right back into your face, and not bothering to console you about how you feel. I am sure Christ himself would be proud.

(24-10-2013 06:40 AM)excubitor Wrote:  You don't. You tell a priest that you have committed a mortal sin and need absolution. He will baptise you and confirm you into the Catholic church.

I recommend avoiding Catholic priests, even if you don't have children. It is unwise to associate with an organization guilty of systematic child rape, and then the covering up of their crimes. Not to mention things like, The Inquisition, and Witch Burnings, you know, little things like that.

Sorry Excibitor, we have the internet now. Catholic dominance requires ignorance.

(24-10-2013 06:40 AM)excubitor Wrote:  After your conversion to the Catholic faith you raise them as Catholic Christians and take them to mass every day. Trying to raise your children as Christians if you are not a Christian will not work. Sooner rather than later they will realise that you are a phony and will reject Christianity anyway. The sins of the fathers are visited upon the children, you are condemning your children and your children's children to lives of disbelief unless you repent.

Essentially you should condemn your children to the same hell on earth that you have lived through yourself, only slightly worse, as Catholics. The same indoctrination, the same doubts, the same pains, the same fears of Hell.

Excubitor is a great example of what religion is all about. They don't care about your family. They don't care about your happiness. They don't care about your pain. They care about one thing only, whether or not you do exactly what they say. They are only interested in furthering their survival. You don't matter to them.

(24-10-2013 06:40 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Trying to raise your children as Christians if you are not a Christian will not work.

Well at least this part makes sense.

(24-10-2013 06:40 AM)excubitor Wrote:  A fear of God and a fear of hell is a good thing. This will save you if it causes you to repent and turn back to God. True atheists do not fear God or hell. The fact that you are suffering anxiety and fear is proof that you do believe in your heart even though your head is trying to convince you otherwise.

"True Atheists" is a made up name. Nobody ever says that. Excubitor has a new dictionary addition for us.

As you can tell with every condescending word dripping out of Excubitor's mouth, fear and anxiety are tools for him, and the church, to manipulate you into doing what they want. It's control on a basic level, that began the first day your indoctrination began. If they were concerned with your happiness, or well being, they wouldn't be so set on adding you to their organizations, just another notch on their belts.

Nobody ever said these people sucked at manipulation. Why do you think so many of us Atheists go through exactly what you do, Jasozz? Millions of us all around the world begin our deconversions as believers in a religion. Millions of us feel fear and anxiety, because it was taught to us. Millions of us make it out, and live happily, free of those who would bind us to their will.

We did it. So can you.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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