Help with Debate
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31-12-2013, 08:04 AM
RE: Help with Debate
(20-12-2013 05:46 PM)Atheos666 Wrote:  I'm in a debate with a friend on, if anyone could offer advice on rebuttal ideas I would really appreciate it. Below is his argument and a link to the actual debate:

In order for me to prove that God DOES exist, I will start by talking about how and why there is a God.

A critic can promptly cry foul and declare, "But you're saying that only God will prove God!" it's true that only God will tell us He has forever existed within the past which He is aware of everything. though we have a tendency to may physically see God, at some point we've to believe he's precisely who He claims to be in His Word, as well as His unlimited power and infinite information. however this doesn't mean our faith is blind and can't be confirmed in some way. It also doesn't mean that faith within the Bible contradicts operational science. God has given us confirming evidences so our religion isn't a blind religion however rational religion. once we begin from the Bible, we will see evidences that powerfully ensure what God has already said. we don"t believe God exists and is true only because He says this.

Unfortunately, skeptics rarely take time to verify the elaborated fulfilled prophecies of the Bible. Given our inability to prove the eternal God by our own human customs, ignoring these could be a serious error so. as an example, God Himself identifies correct foretelling of the future to be what separates Him from all false concepts of God.
Also, Acts 1:3 says the post-Resurrection appearances of Jesus"to as several as five hundred individuals at a time"are "many infallible proofs" that Jesus was specifically who He claimed to be: the Son of God. Matthew, Mark, John, Paul, and Peter all wrote that they saw Jesus up from the dead. many of us believe the written testimony regarding the events surrounding the american Revolutionary War while not one picture or video, however they fail to believe the written testimony of the forty authors whose works we have a tendency to collectively call "the Bible."

Scripture makes it clear that God"s eternal power and divine nature are clearly seen within the creation of the planet around us. God is saying that the look and complexness of nature makes it obvious that He exists. however arduous hearts typically refuse to simply accept any proof that the Bible is true, for it makes them responsible to a Creator God.
While we might not be able to scientifically prove the eternal, almighty God exists, we will see however the Bible is consistent with operational science. With the account of the Flood, we'd expect to search out billions of dead things buried in rock layers arranged down by water everywhere the world, that is exactly what we do find! we additionally see the universe is logical and orderly, and our Creator, as described within the Bible, is the God of order and logic. Ultimately, love, reason, knowledge, logic, and morality are all not possible to explain in a purely materialistic universe that exists out of the blue.

Over and over again the statements within the Bible are often confirmed as true (especially prophecies that solely God may have known) and in keeping with science, showing it can be trusted on all accounts, as well as the existence of God. Biblical faith in God is rational, not blind.

(Exodus 24:11)
(Isaiah 41:21"23, 44:6"8, 45:1"6, and 46:8"11)
(Romans 1:20; Psalm 19:1; 97:6; Job 12:7"10)

Ask him how he knows of god. He will point to the bible, then you can reply so you base your belief in an extraordinary, supernatural answer to the things science can't yet answer on a book written by superstitious uneducated mystical old men that has been disproven over and over? Surely you know of god outside of a book?

If he falls for the bait and tries to posit the book is the infallible word of god, then you can dismantle the bible, showing him the plethora of errors, exaggerations and lies...plenty of sources on this website under refuting the bible on main page....or you can start dismantling how the bible came to be, emperor constantine's direct influence, his removal of all scholar's who didnt agree in presenting jesus as the son of god, etc...the nicene council 321-325 and 390 ad, how there is zero historical evidence of jesus outside of the bible, how except for the apostles writing about his miraculous work 30 years after his death, there is no historical evidence of his miracles...none.

Hone in on his faith.

Explain to him how he is filling in for science with the god of the gap's argument.

The "god of the gaps" argument is the believer's appeal to god as an explanation for whatever phenomenon we cannot explain scientifically. For example, if the scientific understanding of the day cannot explain lightning bolts, the believer will say "god did it".Once we can scientifically explain the mechanism behind lightning, the believer will move on to another phenomenon and attribute god as the cause of that phenomenon.
Faith IS the delusion, belief without evidence. Faith is pretending to know things that you dont know. To say "I have faith in god" really means "I pretend to know things I don't know about god"....THINK about it, you dont know, you HOPE. Faith is an epistemology. It's a method and process people use to understand reality. Faith-based claims are knowledge claims. For example, "I have faith that jesus christ will heal my sickness because it says so in Luke" is a knowledge claim. The utterer of this statement is asserting jesus will heal her. Those who make faith claims are professing to know something about the external world. For example, when someone says "jesus walked on water" (matthew 14:22-33), that person is claiming TO KNOW there was an historical figure names jesus and that he, unaided by technology, literally walked across the surface of the water. This is a knowledge objective statement of fact.

Your religious beliefs typically depend on the community in which you were raised or lived. The spiritual experiences of people in ancient greece, medieval japan or 21st century saudia arabia do not lead to belief in christianity. It seems, therefore, that religious belief very likely tracks not truth but social conditioning.

Faith is a failed epistemology. Showing why faith fails has been done before and done well. (Bering 2011, Harris 2004, Loftus 2010, 2013, McCormick 2012, Schick & Vaughn 2008, Shermer 1997, 2011, Smith 1979, STenger & Barker 2012, Torres 2012, Wade 2009 etc)

If a belief is based on insufficient evidence, than any further conclusion drawn from the belief will at best be of questionable value. This can not point one to the path of truth. Here are five points believers/non believers should be able to agree upon.

1) There are different faith traditions.
2) Different faith traditions make different truth claims.
3) The truth claims of some faith traditions contradict the truth claims of other faith traditions. For example, Muslims believe muhammad (570-632) was the last prophet (Sura 33:40). Mormons believe Joseph Smith (1805-1844), who lived after muhammad was a prophet.
4) It cannot both be the case that muhammad was the last prophet, and someone who lived after him was also a prophet.
5) Therefore: At LEAST one of these claims must be false....perhaps both....

it is impossible to figure out which of these claims is incorrect if the tool one uses is faith. As a tool, as an epistemology, as a method of reasoning, as a process for knowing the world, faith cannot adjudicate between competing claims. The ONLY way to figure out which claims about the world are likely true, and which are likely false, is through reason and evidence. There is no other way....yet
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01-01-2014, 09:00 PM
RE: Help with Debate
Thanks for all the input,

I finished the debate if anyone wants to read it or vote on it here it is:
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01-01-2014, 10:26 PM
RE: Help with Debate
Give him some links to Edward Current videos, and then ask if Current is a good representative as to why Christianity is true. If he says that Edward Current is a Christian who knows what he's talking about, you can drop the bomb on him that Current is actually a satirist. I know, to atheists we all see the blatant sarcasm in the videos, but there are creationists who watch and say "This guy really knows his shit!" It's funny to read them in the comments section of the You Tube videos.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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