Help with evangelical methodists
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
17-08-2011, 06:07 AM
 
Help with evangelical methodists
Hello. I`m Atheist.
This is my first time here, and i would like to ask some help from you guys.
So a year or so ago my family members joined "evangelical methodist church" , as far as i know they come from US and are in some sort of ?mission? here in my country (Eastern Europe). I know my family members are not radical Christians or nut jobs, so there is still hope to reason with them, at-least not to drag their children with them.

So could you please help me, give some pointers on how to deal with "evangelical methodists" some resources on them. Some good dirt, or contradictions, reasoning. I need help.
Thank you for any help.
Quote this message in a reply
17-08-2011, 10:58 AM
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
Here is the website of the church.

http://emchurch.org/

But before you try to talk your parents out of joining, shouldn't you at least consider the possibility that they might be right?

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-08-2011, 11:24 AM
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
Never mind the logic of theophilus; he's one of our guest creationist lunatics. Deluded beyond the point of perversity, but he's polite and friendly. That's why most of us (barely) tolerate him.

If you need information about the debility of religion as a whole, you'll find alot on TTA, just look around on the forums. Pay special attention to logical fallacies, as creationists have mastered most of them. You can easily get trapped in their faulty logic when not paying attention (red herring, tu quoque, non sequitur, reversal of the burden of proof etc.)

If you need dirt on this specific institution, we'll check the link theophilus kindly posted here. I'm sure there are loads of crap and bullshit to be found there, but it takes some work. I'll check it later on, going for a jog now.

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-08-2011, 12:25 PM
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
Ok, checked the website and the "what we believe section"

Quote:What We Believe

The EMC Doctrine

With a firm conviction that the large gulf which separates true historic and conservative Christianity from modernistic and liberal Christianity is an ever-widening chasm which can never be healed; the Evangelical Methodist came into being as a conservative, evangelical church, fundamental in belief, pre-millennial regarding the second coming, missionary in outlook, evangelistic in endeavor, cooperative in spirit, and Wesleyan in doctrine.

The Word of God
We accept and believe the Bible is inspired Word of God. We receive it, as the revealed will and way of God for our daily life.

The Trinity
We believe in the Godhead, the Holy Trinity, in which there are three Persons of one substance, power, and eternity – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The Father
We believe in God the Father Almighty, revealed to mankind as an awesome God of Grace, love, might, mercy, justice and holiness.

Jesus Christ
We believe in Jesus Christ, who is both God and man; His virgin birth, His sinless life, His substitionary and redeeming death, and His physical resurrection.

The Holy Spirit
We believe in the Holy Spirit who ministers the Word of God, reveals Jesus to Christians and empowers them to serve God.

Regeneration
We believe each person must acknowledge the Lordship of Jesus Christ and be born again before he/she is a true Christian.

Sanctification
We believe in entire sanctification following regeneration, whereby the believer is cleansed from the pollution of sin, saved from its power, and enabled through grace, to love God with all his/her heart.

A Holy Life
We believe that every Christian is expected to live a holy life, one that is truly Christian.

Sacraments
We believe in two sacraments, Baptism and Holy Communion. The mode of baptism is left to the conscience of the individual.

Resurrection
We believe in the resurrection of all men to be judged and receive their due rewards; eternal life for the redeemed and eternal punishment for the unbelievers.

The Church
We believe in the local and universal church, which is the body of Christ on earth.

The Lord’s Return
We Believe in the blessed hope, the impending, literal return of Jesus Christ to receive His church unto Himself.



Statement of Faith

(1) We believe in the one true and living God, the Creator, Redeemer, Sustainer, and Ruler of all things. He is infinite, eternal, unchangeable, and is revealed to us as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

(2) We believe that all Scripture is given by inspiration of God. (2 Timothy 3:16)

(3) We believe that salvation is the gift of God’s grace. It cannot be gained or made more secure by good works, but is freely bestowed upon all who put their faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ at Calvary. (John 1:12; Acts 16:30-33; Romans 10:9-10)

(4) We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the Scripture and that all who believe on Him are redeemed by His shed blood. We believe in the resurrection of the crucified body of our Lord and in His ascension into Heaven; He is our High Priest and Advocate. (John 1:1-3; 14; 3:1-7, 16; Hebrews 10:4-14; 1 John 2:2)

(5) We believe that until the return of Christ, it is the Christian’s duty and privilege to seek the fulfillment of Christ’s Great Commission and to minister in His name to a needy world. We are to be instruments of Jesus Christ as the Holy Spirit ministers redemption and reconciliation in the world. (Matthew 25:31-46; 28:18-20)

(6) We believe that Satan is a real being, the author of sin and the reason for the fall of man, and is destined to the judgment of eternal punishment in the lake of fire. (Matthew 4:13; Acts 5:3; Revelation 20:10)


They don't give any proof. They just say: "We believe this bullshit and that's it". You could ask them for proof on any of these claims. The burden of proof is on them, remember that one. It's pretty far fetched if you'd read it from a rational point of view, not? Pay attention to the logical fallacies!



The Prayer section is fun too. The have "the unreached people of the day". You could ask why praying should be chosen over ACTUALLY HELPING these people. I didn't see a link for donations.

Well, you should be able to discard most of their arguments with ease if you're prepared and have some knowledge of the common arguments. Just beware of them in groups; they can be overwhelming and manipulative.

Other stuff I can help you with?

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Thammuz's post
17-08-2011, 12:37 PM
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
Got to agree with Theo actually. You should always be open to ideas, because no matter how much you want to be right it does not make it so. So consider that the church might be right. Decide for yourself. Give everyone that choice, to decide, to weigh in on all the actual information. Live with the decision that they make, as long as it doesn't hurt you.

Now my other side.

Religion is bullshit, worst thing ever, smack whoever you have to until they smarten up. Argh. Religion kills Argh. Take advantage of hu... burn witc... slaughter of thou.... dumb book full of misin.... argh argh argh.

I'm a dichotomy. Sorry.
[Image: 300_288735.jpg]

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-08-2011, 01:19 PM
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
Quote:The Prayer section is fun too. The have "the unreached people of the day". You could ask why praying should be chosen over ACTUALLY HELPING these people. I didn't see a link for donations.


I was watching a program that a girl said that about a church or something, and my parents watching said i dont see you doing it either.

If this happens just turn round and say they dont have a belief system that tells them to go out and do right , etc.

"In real life , as opposed to that happy, clappy, rainbow fantasy world that you see fit to fly through on your winged unicorn of delusion" - Mitchell and Webb
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-08-2011, 01:21 PM
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
Unfortunately, Macdonald's isn't the only western disease rampaging through eastern Europe since the iron curtain came down. Lots of missionaries, and lots of wide-open, vulnerable people, disappointed in communist regimes, still resentful over the loss of their old religious institutions, anxious, frightened, insecure: ripe for plucking!

Reason may not have a very good chance against so much raw emotional need. Reason is what the communists were selling - and the communists contaminated their doctrine with so many lies and broken promises that Reason itself is devalued.

One approach that might work is through the rights - human rights and freedoms - that people have come to take for granted under communist rule. Association, marriage and reproductive rights; medical, end-of-life care and other decisions about one's own body; scientific progress, education and and research. All these freedoms may be endangered - and in the not too distant future - if the fundies gain power. Show your parents - gods know, they make enough news! - what the USian religious right is up to, and ask if that's the system of rule they want to import and become subject to.

Another possible approach is through patriotism; appeal to the tradition and history. What happened to their grandparents' churches? How does this new community compare to what your country had before?

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Peterkin's post
18-08-2011, 12:26 AM
 
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
Thanks a lot Thammuz il go and read the hell out of their home page, and your right more or less everything there is quite crazy.

Peterkin i`m surprised how much you know about commie regime and its aftereffects, but my parents are bit young to be disappointed in commie regime. Human rights and freedoms approach could be the right one.

Again thanks everyone for help
Quote this message in a reply
18-08-2011, 11:08 AM
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
(18-08-2011 12:26 AM)vegetable Wrote:  my parents are bit young to be disappointed in commie regime. Human rights and freedoms approach could be the right one.

Again thanks everyone for help

Especially go after the female parent. Fundies are horrible to women, and so is the bible. PS They're hard on kids and animals, too - that could be a weak spot to exploit.
Oh, hell - just show them footage of Perry campaigning, or Glenn Beck doing anything.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-08-2011, 10:07 AM
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
(17-08-2011 12:25 PM)Thammuz Wrote:  They don't give any proof. They just say: "We believe this bullshit and that's it". You could ask them for proof on any of these claims. The burden of proof is on them, remember that one. It's pretty far fetched if you'd read it from a rational point of view, not? Pay attention to the logical fallacies!
Since it is a church their beliefs are obviously based on the Bible and the statement of faith gives references to it.

Quote:The Prayer section is fun too. The have "the unreached people of the day". You could ask why praying should be chosen over ACTUALLY HELPING these people. I didn't see a link for donations.
How do you know they aren't doing anything for them? It is possible to pray for people and also take action to help them. God has commanded Christians to do both.

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: