Help with evangelical methodists
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19-08-2011, 06:00 PM (This post was last modified: 19-08-2011 06:05 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
(17-08-2011 11:24 AM)Thammuz Wrote:  Never mind the logic of theophilus; he's one of our guest creationist lunatics. Deluded beyond the point of perversity, but he's polite and friendly. That's why most of us (barely) tolerate him.

Some of us even kinda sorta like him. I mean staying polite and friendly in hostile territory is worth something. And I don't see him as a guest here, he's a member as far as I'm concerned.

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19-08-2011, 06:21 PM
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
(19-08-2011 06:00 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(17-08-2011 11:24 AM)Thammuz Wrote:  Never mind the logic of theophilus; he's one of our guest creationist lunatics. Deluded beyond the point of perversity, but he's polite and friendly. That's why most of us (barely) tolerate him.

Some of us even kinda sorta like him. I mean staying polite and friendly in hostile territory is worth something. And I don't see him as a guest here, he's a member as far as I'm concerned.

I think girly man was doing the right thing by pointing out that Theo is not representative of the consensus opinions on this forum.

People like Theo are polite, and that's nice, but they're also frustrating because they're like teflon...nothing sticks. Try to engage them in a discussion and they usually just wander off on a tangent. I find that a bit disrespectful.
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19-08-2011, 07:23 PM (This post was last modified: 19-08-2011 09:20 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
(19-08-2011 06:21 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  People like Theo are polite, and that's nice, but they're also frustrating because they're like teflon...nothing sticks.

That's an admirable quality. I strive for it myself.

(19-08-2011 06:21 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Try to engage them in a discussion and they usually just wander off on a tangent. I find that a bit disrespectful.

Why? The tangents are the only things that are interesting. Theo knows he ain't gonna convince me of anything so he's not even gonna try. I don't give a shit if I could convince Theo of anything so I'm not even gonna try. Doesn't mean we can't meander our way leisurely through tangential paths to a polite and mutually beneficial discourse.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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19-08-2011, 10:02 PM
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
(19-08-2011 07:23 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(19-08-2011 06:21 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  People like Theo are polite, and that's nice, but they're also frustrating because they're like teflon...nothing sticks.

That's an admirable quality. I strive for it myself.

(19-08-2011 06:21 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Try to engage them in a discussion and they usually just wander off on a tangent. I find that a bit disrespectful.

Why? The tangents are the only things that are interesting. Theo knows he ain't gonna convince me of anything so he's not even gonna try. I don't give a shit if I could convince Theo of anything so I'm not even gonna try. Doesn't mean we can't meander our way leisurely through tangential paths to a polite and mutually beneficial discourse.

Re teflon....I agree in the sense that its good to not get upset if someone disagrees with you, and I think that is your point, yes? What I was trying to say was that some people just seem to refuse to stick to a topic...they avoid addressing an issue by bringing in something new and unrelated. An analogy would be if I asked Theo to tell me about his brother's red car and he replies with a discussion about the blue bus that he once went for a ride in. While that is amusing, ultimately it is a waste of time having a conversation with the person.

Re "The tangents are the only things that are interesting." Yep....although there are discussions where the central topic is the important issue. If a baby is dead in the bath, its important to discuss whether mum drowned it, or was it an accident? Whether the birds were singing outside the bathroom window is irrelevant if the safety of baby no 2 is at stake.

I don't pretend to definitively know Theo's mind, yet I suspect he is trying to convince you. Maybe Theo, you could enlighten us on this? Do you think you could ever convince girly man of anything?

I agree it is good to have a polite and meaningful discussion...and it can be mutually beneficial to both parties. It does help if both sides can stick to the topic though.
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19-08-2011, 10:27 PM
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
(19-08-2011 10:02 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  I don't pretend to definitively know Theo's mind, yet I suspect he is trying to convince you.

I think Theo is here because he doesn't want to be an atheist but knows he is.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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19-08-2011, 10:48 PM
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
(19-08-2011 10:27 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(19-08-2011 10:02 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  I don't pretend to definitively know Theo's mind, yet I suspect he is trying to convince you.

I think Theo is here because he doesn't want to be an atheist but knows he is.

Wow! Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I don't quite agree with you ( and of course we'll never know lol ). I feel a bit guilty talking about him like this....its like gossiping in public about him......but.....yeah......you gotta wonder why he is on this forum. I reckon he has a degree of doubt about his beliefs, but to say he "knows" he really is an atheist is a big call. I wonder if his family knows who he's talking to on the internet? Care to tell us Theo?

Of course, we may be completely wrong. He may think we are Christians deep down, but are too proud to "accept Jesus" into our hearts. He could be praying for us now. Is that right Theo?
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20-08-2011, 04:14 AM
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
Quote:I think Theo is here because he doesn't want to be an atheist but knows he is.

Instead of gossiping, let us ask then:
@Theophilus. Why are you so active on this forum?

I notice your activity on alot of threads, but I don't get the impression you're here looking for converts. Are you here for us or for yourself? (or whatever other options).


Quote:Some of us even kinda sorta like him. I mean staying polite and friendly in hostile territory is worth something. And I don't see him as a guest here, he's a member as far as I'm concerned.

True, bad choice of words.


Quote:How do you know they aren't doing anything for them? It is possible to pray for people and also take action to help them. God has commanded Christians to do both.

As I said; why no link for donations?
My post was about the stupidity of prayer. Action works, prayer doesn't (besides helping the conscience of the praying person). Praying is also disagreeing with God's plan, which is arrogant. He's omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient? Then who are you to question his plans? If sweet, ol' grandma gets a painful tumor, she must have done something to deserve it, like breaking an arbitrary sabbath rule.


Quote:Since it is a church their beliefs are obviously based on the Bible and the statement of faith gives references to it.

Yes, I think most of us figured that out. Doesn't change anything about the invalidity of their assertions. If I said you needed to stick a cucumber up your ass to appease the volcano God, people would call me an idiot. If the bible says sprinkling pigeon blood cures leprosy, it's considered science by the true believers. If you make claims, the have to be proven valid. The only way to do that is using a scientific method. A bronze age book doesn't count, as it fails to meet scientific standards. If you think these claims are valid, the burden of proof is on you.


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"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
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20-08-2011, 11:09 AM
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
(19-08-2011 10:48 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Wow! Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I don't quite agree with you ( and of course we'll never know lol ). I feel a bit guilty talking about him like this....its like gossiping in public about him......but.....yeah......you gotta wonder why he is on this forum. I reckon he has a degree of doubt about his beliefs, but to say he "knows" he really is an atheist is a big call. I wonder if his family knows who he's talking to on the internet? Care to tell us Theo?
You don't need to feel guilty for talking about me. It's interesting to see what you think about me.

If I had doubts about my beliefs I would probably avoid forums like this one because I would be afraid of learning anything that might prove them wrong. It is because I am confident about what I believe that I have no reason to avoid those who disagree with me.

I don't have a family and I have never tried to keep my presence here a secret from anyone.

Quote:Of course, we may be completely wrong. He may think we are Christians deep down, but are too proud to "accept Jesus" into our hearts. He could be praying for us now. Is that right Theo?
That is partly right. I have been praying that you will become Christians but I don't think that any of you are already Christians.

(20-08-2011 04:14 AM)Thammuz Wrote:  Instead of gossiping, let us ask then:
@Theophilus. Why are you so active on this forum?

I notice your activity on alot of threads, but I don't get the impression you're here looking for converts. Are you here for us or for yourself? (or whatever other options).
I am here because I think God wants me to be here and I am looking for converts. My sins have been forgiven because I have put my faith in Jesus Christ and I want others to experience this forgiveness.

Quote:As I said; why no link for donations?
My post was about the stupidity of prayer. Action works, prayer doesn't (besides helping the conscience of the praying person). Praying is also disagreeing with God's plan, which is arrogant. He's omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient? Then who are you to question his plans? If sweet, ol' grandma gets a painful tumor, she must have done something to deserve it, like breaking an arbitrary sabbath rule.
Actions are more effective if we first pray and make sure we are doing God's will and receive his power to help us. God commands us to pray and ask him for what we want. It isn't disageement with God's plan, it is part of his plan. When we pray we are acknowledging our need for God's help so prayer is an expression of humility, not arrogance.

And why should they have a link for donations? God wants the church to be supported by its members rather than asking outsiders for financial help.

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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20-08-2011, 11:25 AM
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
Your presence is appreciated Theophilus though it can cause arguments. I have a serious question for you due to your response. If while being here trying to convince us of your side you start to waiver in your own belief will you leave? If you are coming here to spread the truth then it would be best for your integrity that if we convince you, you stay to work it out. You are certain now, but I would hope that when that certainty is challenged you do not flee. All beliefs occasionally come into challenges, and it is best for you as a person to meet these times head on. I will of course discuss things with you more if you ever crack my shell. While I've discredited you from time to time I hope you see me as not trying to force my opinion. some of our members get rough but there are many here who would seek you find your own answer to any challenge of your faith, not simply their own answer.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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20-08-2011, 11:33 AM
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
(20-08-2011 11:25 AM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  If while being here trying to convince us of your side you start to waiver in your own belief will you leave?
I don't know what I would do in that situation. Of course if I became completely convinced that my beliefs are wrong I would stay here because I would be with others who share my beliefs or rather my lack of belief. But I don't know how I would respond if I were in a state where I had doubts about my beliefs but wasn't sure they were wrong.

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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