Help with evangelical methodists
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
22-08-2011, 08:26 PM (This post was last modified: 22-08-2011 09:08 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
(22-08-2011 07:15 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  I must, however, ask you to have another think about your statement "Christ wasn't petty, he didn't demand belief or worship. He demanded a benevolent compassionate attitude and behavior. He demanded empathy." BUT....Jesus quite clearly on many occasions was blatantly intolerant of the non believer.

So I was gonna go back and reread all of your counterexamples to put them in context and try to come up with a reasoned response, and then I thought fuck it, why not just throw out my initial gut reaction and we can go from there. My gut response is that those counterexamples are not from Christ, they're from some asshole named Jesus having problems dealing with and understanding Christ.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-08-2011, 03:55 AM
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
(22-08-2011 08:26 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(22-08-2011 07:15 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  I must, however, ask you to have another think about your statement "Christ wasn't petty, he didn't demand belief or worship. He demanded a benevolent compassionate attitude and behavior. He demanded empathy." BUT....Jesus quite clearly on many occasions was blatantly intolerant of the non believer.

So I was gonna go back and reread all of your counterexamples to put them in context and try to come up with a reasoned response, and then I thought fuck it, why not just throw out my initial gut reaction and we can go from there. My gut response is that those counterexamples are not from Christ, they're from some asshole named Jesus having problems dealing with and understanding Christ.

Hi....mmmmm......lots of issues here, aren't there! Allow me to blab on a bit about this and to "blow my own trumpet"...I think I know a bit about this....as I'm sure everyone else does too...so here goes.

"Christ" is/was a Pauline creation ie the Christ character only made an appearance in Paul's writings, 15-30 odd years after Jesus was crucified. Paul had never met Jesus. Jesus never considered himself "Christ"....his Jewish name was "Yeshua". Neither did his real, very Jewish apostles call him Christ.

The quotes allegedly spoken by Jesus in the gospels were written 35-300 years after Jesus died by unknown authors. All the gospels were heavily edited in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th centuries. They were heavily influenced by Paul's writings. Note that Paul never met Jesus, and fought bitterly with the real family and original disciples of Jesus. These people, including Jesus, were true blue Jews. Paul, who invented Christian theology, was a heretic.

So...the "Jesus" or the "Christ" we think we know so well, the character who sprouts all sorts of mumbo jumbo mixed up with the odd bit of good advice, is just a mish mash creation of the early church. If you analyse what "he" allegedly said, in its entirety, it amounts to gobbledygook. How churches manage to sell it as good philosophy says way more about their time proven methods of indoctrinating minds than it does about the inherent value of the philosophy.

So....with respect to you girly man....any "context" we put "Jesus'" quotes into is only, at best, the context that early anonymous authors and editors put "him" in to try to convince simple uneducated people to join a new religious cult. Its paying these gospels a respect that they clearly don't deserve.

I take "jesus' " sayings at face value and criticise them for what they are, even though I don't believe the real Jesus ever said any of them.

I believe the real Jesus was a poor patriotic God fearing Jew who hated the Romans and tried to start a war with them, but they got to him first and crucified him for being a naughty boy.

The real asshole was Paul's mythical Christ, who everyone has always had trouble understanding. This is the mythical dude who died for your sins, the one so beloved by Christians. He's the one Paul said was coming back and who will one day rapture all his mates into heaven. What a fucking pathetic story! I am always amazed that gullible people believe all this!

I hope this rant has helped some people understand a bit more about the circus that is Christianity.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Mark Fulton's post
23-08-2011, 09:27 AM
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
(22-08-2011 12:10 PM)DeepThought Wrote:  You arrogantly presume atheist ex-Christians were just pretending to be Christians? Like you know the thoughts in my head.
I don't know the thought in your head but I know what I am thinking and I know that there was a time when I thought I was a Christian when in fact I wasn't. If that was true of me why couldn't it be true of others? And don't forget that Jesus warned about wolves who were disguised as sheep.

Quote:Maybe it was the pretend/Sunday Christians that got me starting to question Christianity and all the bullshit. The things I saw while I was there are almost enough to make me dry reach.
What do you mean by "pretend/Sunday Christians"? You seem to be saying the same thing I did, that there are some who only pretend to be Christians.

Quote:[Image: SZY1519PCW4153J11624.jpg]
There is one thing wrong with this cartoon. It implies that whether or not a person is a true Christian depends on what church he is part of. In fact all churches and religious organizations contain some members who are genuine Christians and some who aren't. When I became a Christian I was a member of a church and I continued my membership in that church for over a year. It was my relationsip with Christ and not my church membership that determined the truth or falsity of my profession of being a Christian.

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-08-2011, 09:33 AM
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
Wasn't this thread supposed to be about Vegetable's problem?
How come it's all about Theophilus and his preachment - again?

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-08-2011, 05:57 PM
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
(23-08-2011 03:55 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  If you analyse what "he" allegedly said, in its entirety, it amounts to gobbledygook.

I guess I don't see it that way. I see very little difference between the message of the gospels and the message of the Buddha. (This site has some startling comparisons between the gospels and various Buddhist texts.) They both are suggesting a philosophy of compassion and empathy. Short version is "Don't be an asshole." I got no problem with that.

What I have a problem with is the perversion of that simple yet elegant message into something far more sinister and deranged. Which is what Christianity has done to it. And the fucking bastards have damned themselves because of it.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-08-2011, 06:22 PM
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
Has vegetable dealt with his problem? I worried about that with Lion's thread, and sent him an IM to see if everything is going ok.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-08-2011, 09:36 PM
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
(23-08-2011 05:57 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(23-08-2011 03:55 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  If you analyse what "he" allegedly said, in its entirety, it amounts to gobbledygook.

I guess I don't see it that way. I see very little difference between the message of the gospels and the message of the Buddha. (This site has some startling comparisons between the gospels and various Buddhist texts.) They both are suggesting a philosophy of compassion and empathy. Short version is "Don't be an asshole." I got no problem with that.

What I have a problem with is the perversion of that simple yet elegant message into something far more sinister and deranged. Which is what Christianity has done to it. And the fucking bastards have damned themselves because of it.




Hi....thanks for the link to the site about the similarities between Buddhism and Jesus, which I now understand more clearly. As Buddhism predated Jesus, this is more evidence of how fabricated the Jesus story is. "Jesus" said the odd nice thing, obviously frequently "borrowed" from Buddhism, but also from
Judaism (particularly the school of Hillel.....2 or 3 generations before Jesus) and even from Mithraism (one of the most popular cults in the empire for 300 odd years after Jesus) and others.

Girly man and others, I would like to point out why I think the so called teachings of Jesus, taken as a whole, are immoral and unhealthy. I think knowledge of this is eye opening because many people still believe Jesus was a great teacher. Almost every time a new sect of Christianity forms, they claim "we're going to get back to the bible"....or "we're going to get back to the real Jesus," which just means they end up teaching the same shit. Another variation on this theme is "the churches are bad, but the teachings of Jesus are pure."

I fundamentally disagree with that. To tell you why takes up a couple of pages though, and I don't want to hog the forum. Is 2 pages too much? Tell me if u r interested and I'll stitch it together, otherwise i'm happy to just let it drop.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-08-2011, 10:25 PM (This post was last modified: 23-08-2011 10:36 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
(23-08-2011 09:36 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Girly man and others, I would like to point out why I think the so called teachings of Jesus, taken as a whole, are immoral and unhealthy. I think knowledge of this is eye opening because many people still believe Jesus was a great teacher. Almost every time a new sect of Christianity forms, they claim "we're going to get back to the bible"....or "we're going to get back to the real Jesus," which just means they end up teaching the same shit. Another variation on this theme is "the churches are bad, but the teachings of Jesus are pure."

That's where I'm at. I think Jesus was a Bodhisattva. But I don't believe in all of the other perverse bullshit like somebody else is capable of exculpating me from my sins by dying for me or that there is such a thing as the postmortem preservation of identity. But I do believe that I should strive not to be an asshole.

(23-08-2011 09:36 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  I fundamentally disagree with that. To tell you why takes up a couple of pages though, and I don't want to hog the forum. Is 2 pages too much? Tell me if u r interested and I'll stitch it together, otherwise i'm happy to just let it drop.

Yes, I am very interested. Start a new thread and stitch these posts together to seed it.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-08-2011, 01:01 AM
RE: Help with evangelical methodists
(23-08-2011 10:25 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(23-08-2011 09:36 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Girly man and others, I would like to point out why I think the so called teachings of Jesus, taken as a whole, are immoral and unhealthy. I think knowledge of this is eye opening because many people still believe Jesus was a great teacher. Almost every time a new sect of Christianity forms, they claim "we're going to get back to the bible"....or "we're going to get back to the real Jesus," which just means they end up teaching the same shit. Another variation on this theme is "the churches are bad, but the teachings of Jesus are pure."

That's where I'm at. I think Jesus was a Bodhisattva. But I don't believe in all of the other perverse bullshit like somebody else is capable of exculpating me from my sins by dying for me or that there is such a thing as the postmortem preservation of identity. But I do believe that I should strive not to be an asshole.

(23-08-2011 09:36 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  I fundamentally disagree with that. To tell you why takes up a couple of pages though, and I don't want to hog the forum. Is 2 pages too much? Tell me if u r interested and I'll stitch it together, otherwise i'm happy to just let it drop.

Yes, I am very interested. Start a new thread and stitch these posts together to seed it.

Ok girlyman, I'll start a new thread. I would live to hear about whether you seriously think jesus had some connection with Buddhism or just direct me to a good link. Thanks, Mark.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: