Help with "you're taking that one passage out of context"
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16-07-2013, 12:28 PM
RE: Help with "you're taking that one passage out of context"
(16-07-2013 11:40 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Despite the snippets we hear in a church or the media, the Bible tends to teach in passages, not verses. When I tell a Christian or an Atheist "out of context", I am most often referring to a fragment or partial idea that is understood in the context of a nearby passage or indeed from a second biblical author...

Or when you are plagiarizing as well.......
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16-07-2013, 12:40 PM
RE: Help with "you're taking that one passage out of context"
(16-07-2013 11:40 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Despite the snippets we hear in a church or the media, the Bible tends to teach in passages, not verses. When I tell a Christian or an Atheist "out of context", I am most often referring to a fragment or partial idea that is understood in the context of a nearby passage or indeed from a second biblical author...

You can cite verse, passage, chapter, or book and still be awash in magic, guilt, shame, false history, misogeny, homophobia, slavery, eternal damnation, racism, slaughter, narcissism, and general weirdness.

Not only that, but the reason there are so many Xian denominations is because of the differences of opinion about, and emphasis on, said verses, passages, chapters, and books. Some factions, like the Catholics, even have more books in their Bible (the Apocrypha) than, say, the Protestants. God can't seem to exert much control over his message, it seems.

As for "second biblical authors", we don't even know who really wrote most of the Bible in the first place, as we don't have the original documents. Plus, there is evidence that the books have been edited and added to by multiple authors over time (particularly in the OT, as the Jews wrestled back and forth between polytheism and monotheism).

Sometimes I wonder what you seek to accomplish here. Are you trying to shore up your own doubts, or simply earning points with your Xian peers by engaging with the heathens? Actually I'm kind of glad for your posts, because they inspire me to do more and more research - and I always find good stuff that makes your position as shaky as Ray Comfort would be in a wrestling match with AronRa.
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16-07-2013, 02:03 PM
RE: Help with "you're taking that one passage out of context"
Begs the question - why do theists believe god sprinkled bits of regulations and morality all over the bible in cryptic pieces? He has some sentences that appear to negate what was previously mandated if you read it in plain English. However, if you spend 17 hours to unearth some other sentences from elsewhere it kinda subtly and sorta metaphorically suggests that, oops my bad, you should ignore that crystal clear one.
Why do they think the Bearded Wonder would do that? Couldn't he have used some kind of magical ouija board to guide the hand of the translators? Wait, fuck that! Entire galaxies in a couple of days, I forgot. Why not hard code this horse shit directly into all of our brains like other genetic memory. If I created a being that would develop a voracious appetite for sex at puberty, the proper thing to do (being loving and all) would be to implant the knowledge that I would burn it forever if it didn't resist what the hormones told it to do.
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16-07-2013, 02:09 PM
RE: Help with "you're taking that one passage out of context"
(16-07-2013 02:03 PM)ArtMinx Wrote:  Begs the question - why do theists believe god sprinkled bits of regulations and morality all over the bible in cryptic pieces? He has some sentences that appear to negate what was previously mandated if you read it in plain English. However, if you spend 17 hours to unearth some other sentences from elsewhere it kinda subtly and sorta metaphorically suggests that, oops my bad, you should ignore that crystal clear one.
Why do they think the Bearded Wonder would do that? Couldn't he have used some kind of magical ouija board to guide the hand of the translators? Wait, fuck that! Entire galaxies in a couple of days, I forgot. Why not hard code this horse shit directly into all of our brains like other genetic memory. If I created a being that would develop a voracious appetite for sex at puberty, the proper thing to do (being loving and all) would be to implant the knowledge that I would burn it forever if it didn't resist what the hormones told it to do.

Here's a great one for "you took that out of context" Book of Deuteronomy here put all this evil into context. The entire book no cherrypicking.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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16-07-2013, 02:35 PM
RE: Help with "you're taking that one passage out of context"
(16-07-2013 02:03 PM)ArtMinx Wrote:  Begs the question - why do theists believe god sprinkled bits of regulations and morality all over the bible in cryptic pieces? He has some sentences that appear to negate what was previously mandated if you read it in plain English. However, if you spend 17 hours to unearth some other sentences from elsewhere it kinda subtly and sorta metaphorically suggests that, oops my bad, you should ignore that crystal clear one.
Why do they think the Bearded Wonder would do that? Couldn't he have used some kind of magical ouija board to guide the hand of the translators? Wait, fuck that! Entire galaxies in a couple of days, I forgot. Why not hard code this horse shit directly into all of our brains like other genetic memory. If I created a being that would develop a voracious appetite for sex at puberty, the proper thing to do (being loving and all) would be to implant the knowledge that I would burn it forever if it didn't resist what the hormones told it to do.

Well, this omnipotent being with such an important message couldn't state it clearly, that would violate our freewill in his eyes or somethingDrinking Beverage

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
David Hume
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16-07-2013, 03:20 PM
RE: Help with "you're taking that one passage out of context"
Here's a great one for "you took that out of context" Book of Deuteronomy here put all this evil into context. The entire book no cherrypicking.
[/quote]

12 And Jehovah spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of words, but ye saw no form; only ye heard a voice.

...and that's when Moses started trippin' balls.
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16-07-2013, 04:18 PM
RE: Help with "you're taking that one passage out of context"
I'm sorry, I cant really help you much.

But I have to say, I had a good laugh at what you wrote, because whenever I talk about something from the old testament, I'm always told the same thing.
No matter what it is, if its from the old testament, then it's out of context.

I guess it's just the Christian way of saying; "I don't know how to reply to that".
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17-07-2013, 03:09 AM
RE: Help with "you're taking that one passage out of context"
(11-07-2013 10:15 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(11-07-2013 10:11 PM)childeye Wrote:  It is shown in the writings labeled as the New Testament which is also foretold of in the Old Testament, that the law was meant to convict all men of some measure of unrighteousness compared to perfection as a means of silencing the hypocritical condemnation of one another and defeat the powers of hell and death. The point you make citing it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid was an excellent point to make and quite astute. The thing is, the letter of the law also carries a provision that would wipe out all trespasses and defeat the hypocritical tempter and accuser of mankind releasing one from the penalty of death upon a propitiation or atonement. Hence the law was abolished by the law its' self when a voluntary sacrifice was made by a sinless man. This also was foretold in the Old Testament. Next question?

Bet you can't find anything even remotely saying what you just claimed in the bible. Remember no out of context quotes.

Did you understand what he (Childeye) wrote? I can't make head nor tail of it.
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17-07-2013, 03:31 AM
RE: Help with "you're taking that one passage out of context"
Firstly, what happened to KC? I really want him to elaborate like he promised.

Secondly, concerning this business about the old and new Testament, I once spent way too many hours trying to figure this all out. I concluded that as best we know it was Paul who invented the idea of the "new covenant." Jesus, if he ever existed, and his original family and disciples ,were Jews, and were fundamentally opposed or didn't know anything about this "new covenant."

I've posted the following before, but I'll post it again, because it is at the very heart of the issue....

Paul the Salesman

Paul was a salesman with an ambitious agenda. He hoped to expand his interpretation of Judaism into the Roman world. I think he had a plan to undermine those dangerous messianic Nazarene beliefs that roused rebellion against Roman rule.

He wrote to various groups scattered throughout the Empire, and desperately insisted they believe only his theology. He was so obsessed with snaring converts that little else in his life mattered. In Romans 15:16, he wrote that Gentiles were an offering he would bring to God.
“That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.”

Most of the people he wrote to were Gentiles (pagans) associated with Jewish synagogues, (“God-fearing Gentiles,”) although he wrote to some Jews in the diaspora too. From Paul’s perspective, his patrons were in desperate need of direction and an authoritative, charismatic leader to look up to. He considered himself just the man. He knew how to win the hearts, minds, and souls of people, as he imagined himself as one of the few god fearers (i.e. Jews) who understood Gentile cultures.

Paul’s theology probably had a long and carefully thought out gestation. He knew his customers. In order to appeal to gentiles, he needed a product very different to traditional Judaism, because Judaism required obedience to cumbersome dictates. The Jews believed one had to be circumcised, a painful and embarrassing procedure, not easy to sell to an adult man. They worshipped Yahweh, who is portrayed in Jewish scripture as a thunderous and violent pro-Jewish anti-gentile God. They could only eat kosher food, marry someone Jewish, and had to stop work on the Sabbath. Jewish heritage and history were regarded as superior, and all Jews were expected to take part in the fasts and feasts celebrating the ancient epic of Israel. The Jews thought they were one day going to be the masters of the world. Jewish messianic dreams were an obstacle to the peace Rome imposed on the people of the empire. Paul knew that gentiles found all this inconvenient, irksome and out of touch with reality, so he labeled these Jewish rules and beliefs as a type of “slavery.” He had to jettison the old rules, so he did, by reinventing Judaism so that it was more to the gentile world’s liking.

According to Paul, there was now no need for circumcision or to stop work on the Sabbath. The dietary kosher rules were out; bacon was on the breakfast menu. He downplayed the importance of the Jewish Temple, and replaced the Jews’ hope for a political messiah of their own with Christ, the spiritual savior of all mankind. The “kingdom of God,” according to Paul, became a place in heaven, not in Israel. He declared Yahweh was such a decent deity he’d sent his own precious son, the Christ, to earth. He alleged gentiles were descendants of Abraham too, and that the centuries-old Jewish Law was a “curse.” All that was now required was faith in his claims about Christ. Voilà! The Christ myth and Christian theology were born.

Paul was one of history’s first examples of an ambitious cult leader who, when the rules of the established religion were no longer convenient, simply invented new ones to suit himself. He replaced the so-called “old covenant” of the Jews with his entirely fabricated “new covenant.” He was trying to reinvent Judaism and I think doing his best to dampen down Jewish messianic dreams. He was bending over backwards to infiltrate Judaism with Gentiles and Gentile ideas. He had no idea he was creating an almost entirely new religion, yet that’s precisely what his writings helped do many years later.

To help realize this remodeling of belief, he undermined Yeshua’s family and disciples behind their backs. He was surprised and angry to find himself competing with them for people’s allegiance. They were treading on what he considered his turf. How dare they preach old-fashioned Jewish theology and disrupt his mission to set up communities of believers! Those annoying war-mongering Jews were full of subversive fantasies about a messiah, but God had revealed to him the real Christ, the up-to-date modern Christ! He, not them, was plugging the “good news.” He knew what the newly flexible, expansionist, less violent, less Judaic God expected in these modern, pro-Roman times. He was an educated, savvy, Greek-speaking sophisticate who knew a stack more about selling religion to the subjects of the Empire than the anti-Roman bumpkins from the backwater of Galilee!
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17-07-2013, 08:33 AM
RE: Help with "you're taking that one passage out of context"
(10-07-2013 10:32 AM)ArtMinx Wrote:  Hello,
I was thankfully raised by heathens and have little bible knowledge. I am reading now, and it's pure MISERY. I feel so far behind everyone here. So you'd think I would know better than to engage in "conversations" with fucktards. Nope! Can't help it - misogyny and homophobia make me furious.

When they tell me "Oh that's the old testament - those laws were abolished." I cite things like, "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." Luke 16:17. But they all seem to say I'm taking it out of context at some point. Is this a valid argument? How do you handle this one? In large part, the thing is disjointed snippets that don't seem to be a complete story.

THANKS!!!

You're ahead of most Christians. Good luck with that adventure, I would prefer to get punched in the face repeatedly by Mike Tyson than read that crap.
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