Her savior or complicit in her torture?
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07-11-2013, 09:57 AM
RE: Her savior or complicit in her torture?
(07-11-2013 06:48 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Michelle Knight, one of the victims that was kidnapped by Ohio man Ariel Castro. She - and 2 other women - was raped daily, beaten, forced to miscarry at least 5 times, starved, and brutalized. For 10 years. Every day. For 10 years. Every day. For TEN YEARS.

Escape became possible only when one of her prison mates, Amanda Berry, kicked out a window and escaped.

Michele Knight stated in an interview with Dr. Phil, "I wanted to kiss the ground I walked on and thank god for letting me out of that hell hole."

Now...victims of crimes get a pass with me in terms of whatever brings them comfort. But really? I think it would be very clear to me at that point that god had abandoned me, or that he simply didn't exist at all. I imagine how she begged, and pleaded. And heard nothing. NOTHING!

Why have we never heard someone in this situation stand up and say, I escaped. I survived. I relied on my inner strength because that's all there ever is. What about that Austrian women who was held for 24 years and raped by her father so often he fathered 7 children with her. Did she thank god too? Has anyone boldly lifted a middle finger to the sky and say, I deny the existence of god?

Why do victims thank god? Is this part of the disgusting mentality that you are born worthless? That it was for your own good? To test your faith?

Theists - how do you look at this situation, and sees god's hand in this as mercy, instead of culpable to the complicity in her torture? How do you not see god's complete, utter and appalling apathy?

I just posted about this, I read the book The Slave Across the Street by Theresa Flores. She was from an upper middle class family, who moved around a lot, and got herself in a position as a high schooler in in the early 1980s to work as a sex slave.

They killed her dog, they did all kinds of crap to her. At the end of the book she's saying god protected her from STDs and pregnancy because her periods stopped for 2 years. She did end up with genital herpes...but ok.

Then she goes rationalizing her abuse as being part of god's plan. Something that shouldn't exist but does is rationalized by a victim because now she can share her stories with others???

It's very much like that whole Ken Ham thing I was watching yesterday, all the talk of disease only existing after the fall, the same old crap about Adam and Eve....original sin and whatnot...

It is a subject that makes me want to scream.

But here's the thing, I don't know if she really believes that. A good friend of mine, their mom survived the holocaust. The mom came out atheist -- she maintained there couldn't be a god -- I think there are a lot that deep down feel that way. outwardly to random strangers they say what's expected of them..God did this or that. BEcause they don't want to be responsible for killing god in someone else.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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07-11-2013, 10:01 AM
RE: Her savior or complicit in her torture?
(07-11-2013 09:26 AM)black_squirrel Wrote:  
(07-11-2013 06:48 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Michelle Knight, one of the victims that was kidnapped by Ohio man Ariel Castro. She - and 2 other women - was raped daily, beaten, forced to miscarry at least 5 times, starved, and brutalized. For 10 years. Every day. For 10 years. Every day. For TEN YEARS.

Escape became possible only when one of her prison mates, Amanda Berry, kicked out a window and escaped.

Michele Knight stated in an interview with Dr. Phil, "I wanted to kiss the ground I walked on and thank god for letting me out of that hell hole."

Now...victims of crimes get a pass with me in terms of whatever brings them comfort. But really? I think it would be very clear to me at that point that god had abandoned me, or that he simply didn't exist at all. I imagine how she begged, and pleaded. And heard nothing. NOTHING!

Why have we never heard someone in this situation stand up and say, I escaped. I survived. I relied on my inner strength because that's all there ever is. What about that Austrian women who was held for 24 years and raped by her father so often he fathered 7 children with her. Did she thank god too? Has anyone boldly lifted a middle finger to the sky and say, I deny the existence of god?

Why do victims thank god? Is this part of the disgusting mentality that you are born worthless? That it was for your own good? To test your faith?

Theists - how do you look at this situation, and sees god's hand in this as mercy, instead of culpable to the complicity in her torture? How do you not see god's complete, utter and appalling apathy?

I am not sure.

She was in a situation where she was completely powerless. This is
hard for a human mind to bear. Believing in God, and praying, gives
the feeling that you can have some influence over the situation
that you are in.

This...
If all you have is hope, then I suppose you need to hang that hope somewhere. It's not a great concept but then neither is Stockholm Syndrome. I have to assume that you have to be in a similar situation to really understand either or both.

With some sort of hope or bond, real or imagined, it could keep a person from literally giving up.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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07-11-2013, 12:01 PM
RE: Her savior or complicit in her torture?
(07-11-2013 10:01 AM)Anjele Wrote:  
(07-11-2013 09:26 AM)black_squirrel Wrote:  I am not sure.

She was in a situation where she was completely powerless. This is
hard for a human mind to bear. Believing in God, and praying, gives
the feeling that you can have some influence over the situation
that you are in.

This...
If all you have is hope, then I suppose you need to hang that hope somewhere. It's not a great concept but then neither is Stockholm Syndrome. I have to assume that you have to be in a similar situation to really understand either or both.

With some sort of hope or bond, real or imagined, it could keep a person from literally giving up.

I believe that. I guess that all the really shitty things I've been through - the tremendous loss I felt - only supported the idea that there was no god. Why would god kill a child before he could draw his first breath? What kind of f-ed up plan in that? He wouldn't. It isn't. Because he doesn't exist.
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08-11-2013, 12:14 AM (This post was last modified: 08-11-2013 12:18 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Her savior or complicit in her torture?
This thread needs a WLC styled theist, someone so unabashedly mind-fucked that they'l defend genocide with a straight face in front of an audience and on camera.

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08-11-2013, 12:56 AM
RE: Her savior or complicit in her torture?
So Stockholm syndrome is really just a modern renaming of Yahweh Syndrome.

Hey I just learnt something today,
Shortly before the first century A.D., it became common for Jews to avoid saying the divine name {Yahweh} for fear of misusing it and breaking the second commandment ("You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain," Dt 5:11). Whenever they read Scripture aloud and encountered the divine name, they substituted another Hebrew word, "Adonai" (which means "Lord" or "my Lord"), in its place.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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08-11-2013, 01:43 AM
RE: Her savior or complicit in her torture?
(07-11-2013 09:12 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  I also cannot understand how an experience like this can actually strengthen one's faith in this God that watched them, and their loved ones, suffer for so long.

I look at it as one of two explanations:
1.) It appears that great acts of accomplishment can only be carried out with the help of God. She may have felt that alone she could not pull of the escape at any point int time sooner, but when everything lined up for that opportunity there must have been something beyond her abilities intervening.

On the other hand, I wonder if this Castro guy "thanked God" when he got home with each girl for not getting caught? Explain that theists! Virgins...Bible.. for the taking - matches up with the stories!

2.) Maybe not quite in this case, but people say they "Thank God" all of the time without actually giving credit to an act of God. It is more of a routine response/saying drilled into us from childhood. Like if a vehicle containing 5 kids is in a car accident and only one is not seriously injured, the mother may say "thank god you are alright". I could see my wife even saying this although I know she does not mean it literally.

This was my thought exactly. I say "thank god" all the time simply meaning that I am so glad. It doesn't necessarily mean a person is actually thankful to a real god when they say it.
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08-11-2013, 09:13 AM
RE: Her savior or complicit in her torture?
What I want to see is Wolf Blitzer interviewing, "you gotta thank the lord" ,
And her response, _____ _____ __ _____ _unt !!!

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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