Here is a question I have been pondering for a while
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09-11-2014, 03:21 PM
RE: Here is a question I have been pondering for a while
(09-11-2014 02:37 PM)The Polyglot Atheist Wrote:  
(09-11-2014 02:33 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  And if I just left them or never bother and went on with my own stuff I'd just probably end up wasting all those years laying on a Heaven Sofa™ playing Heaven games or napping, because that's all I do now anyway.

#2 is far simpler and involves so much less hassle!

Dude, think about it. RTS LAN parties for 400 trillion years. Big Grin

400 trillion years of sucking at Starcraft does sound almost appealing.

Who knows; I might even be able to get out of the absolute last place in Bronze... Consider

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09-11-2014, 03:42 PM
RE: Here is a question I have been pondering for a while
Like Gandalf when he transformed from Grey to White, 400 trillion years could be a blink of an eye on another plane, but eternity is timeless.

Option B please, hold the sauce.

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09-11-2014, 03:45 PM
RE: Here is a question I have been pondering for a while
Option 2. There won't be a me, myself or I. I just won't exist again. I didn't exist for a trillion-bazillion-gazillion years so, what's the big deal doing it again. A heaven concept is the human ego talking.

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He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
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Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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09-11-2014, 07:51 PM
RE: Here is a question I have been pondering for a while
Unquestionably #2. In the scope of eternity, 400 trillion years is a blink of an eye.

Plus, if you're assuming we have the same conciousness as we have in our mortal time on earth, you will get tired of everything in that 400 trillion years. It's a measure of time we can't comprehend.
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09-11-2014, 08:26 PM
RE: Here is a question I have been pondering for a while
I'm assuming #1means bliss according to how whatever god is in charge defines it. My idea of bliss will undoubtedly include things deemed as bad in holy books.
Will my unclean activities be restricted to what is acceptable as defined by god/heaven standards?
Surely if gods set rules for us here on Earth, there must be those same rules in heaven.

I'll take #2.
I won't be in pain for eternity from the get go.
I won't be sad thinking I'm missing out on 400 trillion years of fun.
I won't miss my loved ones. (alive or dead)
I won't have any awareness of anything, I won't even be aware of the fact that I'm dead.
The idea of heaven and some crazy reward/punishment bargain does not appeal to me at all.
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09-11-2014, 08:38 PM
RE: Here is a question I have been pondering for a while
Option 2 is what I want anyway. I made peace with the Big Nothing a long time ago.

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09-11-2014, 09:08 PM
RE: Here is a question I have been pondering for a while
As everyone else has said, option 2. And the reason is the same. To put it in human terms, are you willing to beaten, raped, cut, water-boarded, kept on minimal foods and water, and kept alive for your entire life in order to have a single, fantastic event at the start?
400,000,000,000,000 years of bliss, even if possible, does nothing to countet 400,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,​000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,​000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years of hideous torture, especially when you get to repeat those torture years, all of them, over and over again.
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09-11-2014, 09:26 PM
RE: Here is a question I have been pondering for a while
(09-11-2014 01:11 PM)Magoo Wrote:  So let's say you die and it turns out god is real. God offers you a deal, and you have 2 choices;

1. You get to enter heaven, and live in complete and utter bliss and happiness for 400 trillion years. That's right, 400,000,000,000,000 years of everything you could want. You could live in a glorious mansion, meet all your past relatives, spend every single day doing what you love and being happy, for an incredible amount of time.

However,

Once your 400 trillion years are up, and one day they will run out, you must spent the rest of eternity being tortured in hell. Imagine having your eyes gouged out, your limbs ripped from their sockets, or your head being crushed in a vice. Only for you to be put back together and having the same thing repeated over and over and over.

2. You conscience simply fades away and your return to where you were before you were born.

When I first asked myself this, I was immediately going for option 2. I was thinking, no matter how long I am in heaven, it doesn't matter if the amount of time I had was so long that if you wrote it down on a piece of paper, it would stretch the length of the universe, one day it will end. And once I end up in hell, 400 trillion years isn't even the beginning of eternity. But then I starting thinking about it some more. 400 trillion years is an absolutely incomprehensible amount of time. Our universe has been around for 13 billion years, and even that crazy amount of time isn't even a fraction of 400 trillion. So to be able to live in complete bliss for such a long time would seem like an offer you simply could not refuse. It is so long it could never end. And remember, I'm not talking about living for 400 trillion years, but being extremely happy. Maybe you could have a heroin rush that never ends, or eat a delicious dinner where you never get full, whatever is you could possibly imagine. But then option 2 comes to mind again, one day it will end.

Since a lot of you are atheists here, you may jump to option 2 because all the time that passed by before you existed was completely fine. But when you really think about what you could have if you choose option 1, it really makes you think again. I keep going through a cycle of "nope definitely go for oblivion, it really isn't that bad and I don't feel like hell", but then I think, "but 400 trillion years is so long, and I could have everything I want, it would be such a long time it would never end!". And then I think, one day it will end, and I am back to square one again.

I'm interested to hear what you people would chose. Think about for a minute before you post anything.

EDIT: UGH, double post for some reason, my apologies, puter acting weird today.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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09-11-2014, 09:28 PM
RE: Here is a question I have been pondering for a while
(09-11-2014 01:11 PM)Magoo Wrote:  So let's say you die and it turns out god is real. God offers you a deal, and you have 2 choices;

1. You get to enter heaven, and live in complete and utter bliss and happiness for 400 trillion years. That's right, 400,000,000,000,000 years of everything you could want. You could live in a glorious mansion, meet all your past relatives, spend every single day doing what you love and being happy, for an incredible amount of time.

However,

Once your 400 trillion years are up, and one day they will run out, you must spent the rest of eternity being tortured in hell. Imagine having your eyes gouged out, your limbs ripped from their sockets, or your head being crushed in a vice. Only for you to be put back together and having the same thing repeated over and over and over.

2. You conscience simply fades away and your return to where you were before you were born.

When I first asked myself this, I was immediately going for option 2. I was thinking, no matter how long I am in heaven, it doesn't matter if the amount of time I had was so long that if you wrote it down on a piece of paper, it would stretch the length of the universe, one day it will end. And once I end up in hell, 400 trillion years isn't even the beginning of eternity. But then I starting thinking about it some more. 400 trillion years is an absolutely incomprehensible amount of time. Our universe has been around for 13 billion years, and even that crazy amount of time isn't even a fraction of 400 trillion. So to be able to live in complete bliss for such a long time would seem like an offer you simply could not refuse. It is so long it could never end. And remember, I'm not talking about living for 400 trillion years, but being extremely happy. Maybe you could have a heroin rush that never ends, or eat a delicious dinner where you never get full, whatever is you could possibly imagine. But then option 2 comes to mind again, one day it will end.

Since a lot of you are atheists here, you may jump to option 2 because all the time that passed by before you existed was completely fine. But when you really think about what you could have if you choose option 1, it really makes you think again. I keep going through a cycle of "nope definitely go for oblivion, it really isn't that bad and I don't feel like hell", but then I think, "but 400 trillion years is so long, and I could have everything I want, it would be such a long time it would never end!". And then I think, one day it will end, and I am back to square one again.

I'm interested to hear what you people would chose. Think about for a minute before you post anything.

Well the only problem is outside of the analogy, hell in accordance with christian doctrine, isn't torture, it is simply a place devoid of god.

Source is Reason, Faith and Tradition by Martin C. Albl, Chapter 7 page 188 – describing hell.

"We begin with a reminder of limitations of our language. Since hell, according to Christian doctrine, is a supernatural reality, it can only be described in analogies. Holy Scripture teaches us the essence of hell in images. When it speaks of the fire of hell, it is not to be understood in a grossly realistic sense. The images of fire and pain were ways of expressing the essential Christian understanding of hell – that it is a separation from God. We may define heaven as simply being with God, and hell, in contrast, is simply being without God. It is thus an existence without goodness and without meaning."

But to play the analogy, I guess opt 1, 400 trillion years of bliss sounds good.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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09-11-2014, 10:30 PM
RE: Here is a question I have been pondering for a while
(09-11-2014 01:11 PM)Magoo Wrote:  So let's say you die and it turns out god is real. God offers you a deal, and you have 2 choices;

What this seems to really say is..
"Let's say you die and through some unknown process, you are conscious again in some other place and I'm the God who is offering you a fucked up deal for no good reason or purpose, other than the fact that I am curious if eternal torture down the road is something you're willing to accept if I give you everything you've always wanted.

Your initial statement makes me powerless and God your puppet.
Because if I'm ever conscious without the restraints of this material body, then there are few things that I can think of that can hold me back.
Unleash my mind and I'll eat universes for breakfast and nibble on gods for a snack.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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