Here is my argument against atheism if you're interested at all
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27-12-2014, 08:23 AM
RE: Here is my argument against atheism if you're interested at all
(27-12-2014 03:13 AM)gofish! Wrote:  Grasshopper has shown us the way!

Indeed.

In a spirit of well meaning Christmas cheer I invite any and all members to apply for inclusion on my highly prestigious ignore list. What an honor! :-)

If you've had enough of Bozoism, just say so, no worries, and we'll solve the problem. I'm a bozo typoholic blowhard, not an evangelist.
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27-12-2014, 08:25 AM
RE: Here is my argument against atheism if you're interested at all
(27-12-2014 07:11 AM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  
(26-12-2014 11:46 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Heart



̴̪̤̈̒̾̆"̖̳̉͐̔̂E̘̟̖̞̯̦̔̑̅ͯ̊̌̑w̖̐̈̋͘ǵ̬̫̳̞̼l̬̬̿̅u̞̟̤̖̺̫̱̅ ̦̫̤̝͕̗͈ͨ͋̋ͦ̒͠p̿̔ͣ̎̑͏̯͚̲͖͙͎̫h̩̝̞̬͆̂̒̇ͮͦ͛l̟̻͓̹͙͕̹̒͗̿͞n̖͚̫̋ͦ̀ͯ͊͘'̰͎̪̬͖͓̭̑̎ͯṡ̩̎͜l̒͐​̬̤̖̥̙̒ͥͩg͕̫̲̟ͮ̒͒ͩh̩̙̫̯̯̯̺̓̾͑͑̈̓n̟͒̐͆ ̧̺͈̲͓͚͖ͧ̈̾ͧ̾̒́h̲̪͍̣͈̼ͯ̐̓̃̎ͫn̨͖̰̳͎͋̄g̛̫͈͇̓̌ḽ̟̻̙̫̒ͬͣ̾ͩ'́̂̓w̛̻͚̞͖̏̃ͮ͆͒i̶̥͓͙̖̫̲͐ͭ.͑​͂̀ ͈̼̬͆̊̓K̟͙̟͎͐̊̓͗͊ͨr͉͉ͦͭͫh̙͎̃ͮ̕a̸͇̦̅͒̌̈ͬ̉̈́'̱̬̠̙̤̻ͮ͜g̓ͤͧ̍̅̄͏̪̫͇̱̠̲͈rͬͮ̆҉̞ ͓̤̩͙̋̉ͅb̲̲͖̋ͬ̑ṛ̃̊͛̽̋̃'̧̣͑̈́͛̏c͔ͪ̈͐ͣ̓ͣ̐̕l̯̔̂͜n̸͓ŭ̇͗̔͗͌̚ỉ̝ͤ͂̿̆ͭļͮ̌ͨh̽͟a̩͕͗̽ ̬̞̮ͥͣ̔̾ͤͯͧͅw͎̙̯͌̋g̴̰̭̣̙̓ͫ̓̓ͥa̸̯ͦͨͤͨh̷̥̞̹͉̜ͦͪ̽ͦ̏̿͆ͅ'̯ͭ̓̽ͫ̈ͅr̹͍͍̐̊̅̈̈́l̼̺̟̙͒ͮ͒ͦ̍ͮ͆͡​y̸̜̽̌ͤ̋̿ͮͩ'̴̯̯̮͚͔͂̔̑̑̑ṳ̸̱̫̼̫̩̿ͤ͐̌͗͐͑e͚͚̞h͔̯̠̳͙͚̓ ̳̙̖̗̭͓̬̆̚v̧͔̻̻͛ͪͭ͊̂̂ͅ'̥̖̗̙̟̰̄̕g̠͚̘͕̗̲̳͒̽ͨ͒ļ̭͍̱̔ͧ͌͗̀̊̄ư͚ͅa̦̯͇̥̕ ̻̔͗̐͌͊̽͢n̶͚͍ͩ͐̑̐̚'͕̦̯̥̯gͯl̟̔̂ͣ.̣ͯ̉ͧ̿"̩̩́ͩ͆̔͛ͦͧ



̱̞̠̝̉̾͛"̣̪̥̲͔͈̗U̮̙̝͓͛̓ͯn̞̹̞̗g̺̮̙̱̯̤͊ͥl̆ͯͬ̋̇̓͏͔̭̺̗n͇̣ͫ̏͘u͚̐ͮ͋̈'̹̝͇̞̘͓͐ͯͬ̂̊͑n̔ͦ͒ͣp̵̒̋̓̚ȟͣ​̸̺̥̄ ̮͙k̰̣͎'̷͓͖̬̦͈ľ̿̉҉̦̤̗̘̱ͅy̧̘̣͕ͬė̛̹̦͎ͫh͍͍͔̙͎̱͗ͬͦͨ ̦̞͔ͬ̓̑̇̂r͓̥͑̈́ͮ́͞'̻̠̟͒̉̓͂̚͞w̧̦̟̫̼͉̰͇ͫ̃ͪͪͪn̠̲̖̼̼ǧ̤͍̰ͨ͢l̴͎̮̩̭̼̬̥ͭ͛̄̀ṵ͚̘̥͔̱̇́̇̈̾ͤ̔​͔a̙͖͙͉̖̥̒͆͛ͥ ̃ͧ͋̅̀ḥ̡̮̜̬͆n̪̈̏̓͑̾̒g̟͔̹̅͐ͣi͈̱̗͚͙̲̳ͨ̒̑̑ͣl͖̺̹ͪ͑̍͊͠ú̋̏'̘͙̜̽̉p̏̓̎҉͉̩h̴̲͎̜͉̪̍͂ͫͩͩͩ̚​̮t̞̆̆͛ͨhͤ̅ͭ͋ͮ̓͏̗̹̰̹͍̹'͆ͩ̑͌̿̚͜n̲͡,̛͉̟̼̖̺͉̰̐̏̈ͭͦͨ ̰̫̙̪͕͗̉ͧ̓ͥḷ'̯̻ͦ̀͑ͥ̄̑y̼̲̬̝͊i̜?̃ͨ̎̑̍̂͟ ̯̙̳͕͓͑̈́͂̍̐̿̿R͕̭ĝ͙̫̀ͅ'͕̼̟͗h̗͔̫̳̫̺̊̽ͭl̮̥͌̊̈́͛i̩̙̼̥͙͉͉͒͌ͮ͞ȧ̭͍̹͙̘̣̜̏̈́ ͙̹͕̞̟̣̗̎ͤ͡k̛͇̻̗͎̩̒͒́̉'̩̦̭̽̀̆͒̓ͫ̈́͞g͍͕͔̥͔̟̮r͖̰̫͈̺͒͒͝.̣͚̳̬̍̇ͥ͆ͮ̽͂ ̶̻̘̟͇͎̒̂̾̂F̹̤̮ͦ̇̈́̎̿'͇̭̥̜̓̎̋̍̀͊n̫̩̼̤̣͈̤ͪ̆͌͌ã̼̻̻͎̲͉̠͡t͇̆ͥͤ̂h̩̟̙͆̇͑͛̿̇̚͞ ͔̍͜r̡̬͇̯͇̾ģ̘͉̗̺̭̱ͫ̇'̵̥̠̥̣ͤ̏̒͆̅ͮ͛ͅh̡̦͎̱̳̖ͩļ͉̣̜͔i͇͛a̖̰̭̪͕͇̜͘ ̸̋̒ͅg̭͙͚̲̞ͫͫ̓ͩͬṟ̥̝̬̘̥ͧ̃͌̆̀'͉̬͈̓̉̒̓̕r̜̜̹͕͖̠̊ͣ̎̕n̤ͪ͂ͫu̻̞̝̦̦͔͂̄ͦͦͣ̅̎aͩͅ.̙̻̼͆ͯ͒̎ͯ"̪̮͔̦̅̄̐͆̽̋ͅ ̢̅̾ͥͯ̒̌

Big Grin

WTF is that?! Blink Some sort of weird math equation?

Z͙A̛̖̗̜͔̥̬̩L̨̗G̝̺͚̲O̫̮̕ͅ ͘HE̠ ̛C͙̫͕͓̹̞͠O̧M̙̺E͎͓S̲̣̞͎̪͝

Soulless mutants of muscle and intent. There are billions of us; hardy, smart and dangerous. Shaped by millions of years of death. We are the definitive alpha predator. We build monsters of fire and stone. We bottled the sun. We nailed our god to a stick.

In man's struggle against the world, bet on the man.
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27-12-2014, 10:20 AM
RE: Here is my argument against atheism if you're interested at all
(26-12-2014 03:09 PM)Cthulhu Wrote:  I'm certainly not an atheist myself even though I don't belong to a religion or specific faith as they are generally a little bit silly (pork is forbidden, no foreskins, bread/wine literally turns into the flesh/blood of a god-man in your mouth, magic underwear, homosexuality is an abomination to God etc), contradictory, divisive and apparently what you believe is based on where you were born so they're ultimately very likely going to be man made cultural products of a human collective imagination. It can be an impressive work of imagination though and I see no reason why some of these ideas and concepts may not be true in reality so our universe may have designed by a greater intelligence (or intelligences) of some kind for the purpose of creating life/humanity and/or perhaps there is some kind of continued concious existence after the death of body as there is nothing I know personally (and I'm fairly confident that no-one else alive knows Neil Degrasse Tyson included) that would prevent any of this from being true in actual reality, if it is true you don't get top argue that it isn't in your opinion it would just be true. Even if you want to bring up certain known scientific facts such as the Big Bang or evolution those could just be part of the intentional design or purpose of the universe if it was intentionally created this way for all we actually know so there isn't really point taking a "side" on this question unless you want a personal faith or belief which is fine if you're into that sort of thing. I'm also happy with children being brought up within religious traditions as well, if a Jew, Christian' Hindu or Muslim parent wants to bring their children up believing what they believe is true then all the best to them, no-one is harmed and it doesn't ruin mine or Richard Dawkin's day particularly. It may even be generally be a good thing for some or even most people in a society to have a well defined spiritual faith even if it's not necessarily for me, it seems like all civilizations throughout history were united under some kind of religion so it may be a fundamental human need (for most if not all humans we're the exceptions not the rule). If I had a child with a partner who was particularly religious and they wanted to bring them up in a faith they could do that even though they would inevitably have some exposure to my general lack of religiousness and I would explain to them what my opinion, it's the opinion of having an open mind.

While I'm not religious and I wouldn't join a faith myself I'm fine with people believing in religions, God, angels, Atlantis, ghosts, faeries, alien abductions, the Lochness Monster, homoeopathy or whatever they enjoy believing in as long as they're not harming anyone or believing anything we know for a fact isn't true. You may bring up Santa and say we don't know for a fact that he doesn't exist but if he did exist as legend describes him as being then he would be much too obvious for anyone not to notice so you can take his apparent non-existence as factual in his particular case. If Jesus for instance was one third of a Trinity of God that isn't really something you would notice happening if real in the same way as a jolly fat fan dressed in red ridding a sleigh pulled by magical reindeer, you can see how the two things aren't quite comparable in the exact same way as they are two very different propositions with a different observable or lack of an observable outcome if true.

In my own opinion (which you may well disagree with that's fine with me) I see atheism as more a reaction against religion and religious people while maintaining a collective in group mentality, you can post on forums like this for instance, read atheist books, join an atheist convention or "church and feel like you belong to something greater than yourself with "people like yourself" which is perhaps part of the human religious drive. There even seems to be some kind of schism within atheism with this atheism plus business in much the same way a religious movement would form splinter groups and off-shots with adherents to different of a creed so again that's very much comparable to what would happen within a religion.

Instead of being an atheist why not open your mind to the limitless possibilities of what could be possible? I'm not saying the specific doctrines of a Mormon, Sikh, Muslim, Wiccan or whatever are going to be very likely individually as religions but they can still be respected and not called wrong or deluded, brain washed as children or whatever else (though people can be corrected if they're wrong about known certain facts of course). Also when it comes to the deeper and more ultimate questions of our existence why argue against something that you don't personally know is true or untrue as though you know what is true when you don't? Confused You see what I'm saying here? Anyway feel free to facepalm Facepalm and correct any flaws you see in my reasoning or understanding of what atheism actually is this is just my ten pence/overall philosophy concerning the big questions.

Wow... An actual, living shapeshifter!

The sort of theist who's beliefs change depending on what's attacking them. Endlessly moving the goalposts in order to keep their beliefs just out of reach.

It is pointless debating with this kind of theist, they'll just lead you round in circles and never really engage you.

I don't think anyone here completely rules out the possibility of a god or gods existing, but that in itself is no reason to believe that they do... There is still the lack of even a single, tiny, shred of proof.

This argument is in many ways more ridiculous than typical religious claims, because it is fundamentally illogical. Why would a god create a universe, and then have nothing to do with it? And it still presents the problem of explaining that god's existence.

But, being shapeshifters, the "mysterious ways" argument comes out a lot... Which just tells me that either you haven't thought your idea through, or you did think it through and didn't like the logical paradoxes it threw up.

You have to wonder, what is the point in believing in a god that doesn't concern himself with us or anything in existence...?

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