Here vs Youtube
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04-01-2014, 08:56 PM
RE: Here vs Youtube
(04-01-2014 07:25 PM)OddGamer Wrote:  Here... okay, this is embarrassing BUT... I don't really know a lot of details, and that hurts when surrounded by those who do. I have a rough overview of the Big Bang, evolution, abiogenesis, and the bible. I get chewed up quickly by someone who REALLY knows what they're talking about.

So why not read some books and educate yourself rather than contribute to the overwhelming volume of dross on the Internet? The time that you spend "debating" on YouTube could be used to educate yourself. The worst of atheism and theism is found in Youtube comments. There are just too many idiots on YouTube--of all types, and the comment mechanism is just not intended/suited for debating (e.g. word limit, no links, flagging as spam).

You are correct that on an atheist forum it is predominantly atheists talking to each other. But what is there on YT? That isn't debate or even dialogue, it is the equivalent of a shouting and table thumping contest. There isn't even the potential on YT to persuade someone to rethink a point. Examine the threads on this forum that are exchanges with a religious person or a conspiracy nut. The best of them involve detailed argumentation and evidence (presented with citations). And that is what a genuine argument should contain. That just isn't practical on YT. I don't think anything of value is to be gained by "debating" on YT.
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04-01-2014, 11:12 PM
RE: Here vs Youtube
I like those rare arguments that end with "Oh, that makes sense. My bad." or something similar. Those really make my day.

Even arguments that I'm in, hearing a concession, or even giving one makes me feel pretty good. I've either corrected someone or am now corrected on something I was wrong about. Win-win.

Endless arguments are ridiculous. Its occasionally a lesson that the other person is too stupid or stubborn to learn. Usually its just a shit throwing contest though.
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04-01-2014, 11:18 PM
RE: Here vs Youtube
(04-01-2014 08:56 PM)Chippy Wrote:  I don't think anything of value is to be gained by "debating" on YT.

I only go there for the funk, didn't realize anyone even thought about going there for anything but the funk.




As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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04-01-2014, 11:36 PM
RE: Here vs Youtube
I can relate to your post. I am an intelligent guy but the majority of points I want to make are often made before I can, or better than I can. However, that makes me want to be here more because my experiences and instincts concerning religion are not backed with citations etc; and can be called out as anecdotal. ... I only became an active poster a short while ago. I've met some nice people here, some of which I consider haevy weights academically. If you ask, they will help you. At the moment, I'm trying to educate myself about free will, infinity and countering non literalist apologetics. It's heavy going but I'm in no rush.

As for idiot style of 'debate', there are loads of dick heads do fly bys on here and I DO stoop to their level and will engage in name calling etc; because quite frankly, if whoever it is happens to be a pillock or a troll, I find it funny! Smile

Spend some time here, ask some questions, you might find something that sparks your interest!

All the best! Big Grin

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05-01-2014, 12:07 AM
RE: Here vs Youtube
(04-01-2014 08:56 PM)Chippy Wrote:  So why not read some books and educate yourself rather than contribute to the overwhelming volume of dross on the Internet? The time that you spend "debating" on YouTube could be used to educate yourself.

Mainly, for me, it's poverty. A standard fiction book is a meal. Some of the more expensive books are a day of eating. If I have to choose between feeding my belly and feeding my mind, belly wins every time.

(04-01-2014 08:56 PM)Chippy Wrote:  The worst of atheism and theism is found in Youtube comments. There are just too many idiots on YouTube--of all types, and the comment mechanism is just not intended/suited for debating (e.g. word limit, no links, flagging as spam).

I've never hit the word limit, posted links in my comments, etc. Sure, they can get rid of my stuff, but that's about all. Now, admittedly, I don't watch videos over about 20 minutes long because they're impossible to respond to reasonably.

(04-01-2014 08:56 PM)Chippy Wrote:  You are correct that on an atheist forum it is predominantly atheists talking to each other. But what is there on YT? That isn't debate or even dialogue, it is the equivalent of a shouting and table thumping contest. There isn't even the potential on YT to persuade someone to rethink a point. Examine the threads on this forum that are exchanges with a religious person or a conspiracy nut. The best of them involve detailed argumentation and evidence (presented with citations). And that is what a genuine argument should contain. That just isn't practical on YT. I don't think anything of value is to be gained by "debating" on YT.

I admit I haven't changed anyone's mind on there, nor had them change mine. most of my 'arguments' are about why specific arguments fall down. I had a few nice back-and-forth bits for a while, even a pair of videos that I think I responded to very well (haven't done nearly so well since). As I said somewhere in here I even made a video response to one person. But you're probably right, I'm probably just screaming at the monkeys in the next tree, getting thumbs up from those who are already atheists, thumbs down from the theists. ... I'll see about looking into what I can find educationally from here. I'm not even sure what topics to look into. Free will seems straight-forward, infinity, natural selection... that sort of leaves abiogenesis which is in it's infancy, origins of the universe which isn't well defined, and quantum mechanics which, while fun potentially (save that it breaks my brain and leaves me wondering about a few things), doesn't seem to be applicable to the atheist/theist arguments I've seen (or, rather, isn't needed). ... Of course, watch that it turns out I really don't get the things I think I do. Rolleyes
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05-01-2014, 12:35 AM
RE: Here vs Youtube
Writing a comment on YouTube:
An opportunity for catharsis.

Writing a comment here:
An opportunity for catharsis.
A potential for worthwhile debate.
Replies that are genuinely caring (sometimes).
A chance to find out you might be wrong and learn from it.
A chance that HoC will call you a poopy-head.

No contest.

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05-01-2014, 01:11 AM
RE: Here vs Youtube
(04-01-2014 07:45 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Reading comments on youtube sometimes just makes me fall on the knees and beg for the nuclear holocaust to finaly come.

That's exactly how I feel when I watch French movies!

But yeah, YouTube comment debates are a huge waste of time. YouTube videos of debates on the other hand can be a great learning experience. Shortly after my deconversion I would sometimes spend my entire Sunday watching back episodes of the Atheist Experience or other more formal debates just to get up to speed.

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-Rowan Atkinson
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05-01-2014, 07:17 AM
RE: Here vs Youtube
(04-01-2014 11:18 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I only go there for the funk,

I go for the camp stuff like this:



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05-01-2014, 07:30 AM
RE: Here vs Youtube
(04-01-2014 08:56 PM)Chippy Wrote:  But what is there on YT?

Gwynnies! Heart Banana_zorro

And it ain't for comment and debate, it's for trolling and flaming. Thumbsup

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05-01-2014, 07:42 AM
RE: Here vs Youtube
(05-01-2014 12:07 AM)OddGamer Wrote:  Mainly, for me, it's poverty. A standard fiction book is a meal. Some of the more expensive books are a day of eating. If I have to choose between feeding my belly and feeding my mind, belly wins every time.

You can obtain many books for free if you know how to use Google and many universities have lecture notes, course notes and reading lists online.

Quote:I'll see about looking into what I can find educationally from here. I'm not even sure what topics to look into.

If you want to educate yourself rather than commit canned atheistic arguments to memory then read books on philosophy, New Testament studies, logic, evolutionary biology and cosmology--that's not an exhaustive topic list but it's a good start.. I'm still reading this sort of material and the more I read the more ignorant I realise I am. There is no short-cut if you want to be a competent debater.

I'll give you a specific topic to investigate: the demarcation between science and pseudoscience.
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