Here we go...
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08-11-2014, 10:19 AM (This post was last modified: 08-11-2014 10:54 AM by Clockwork.)
Here we go...
On another (non-religious) site, something made a blanket statement about atheists, to which I said atheism is just one part of a puzzle. We don't go around telling people what to believe. To which another said:

Quote:
I don't think that is entirely true about people loving to tell atheist what atheist think. I will give you their are some fanatics out there who do regurgitate things true and false about atheist, but lets face facts Atheist love to tell people what they think all on their own. I remember when no one bothered with atheist at all, it was something that just was like every other religion, but then atheist started taking everybody to court and now here we are.


I replied:

Clockwork Wrote:Let's put it this way. Most atheists don't. Smile  The activist groups don't always speak for the majority of the people they claim to represent.

But what's the difference between someone posting prayers every day versus someone posting secular words of wisdom? And considering most religious people are quick to tell me I'm serving their evil one, why can't I defend myself?



Is this worth pursuing?

Edited to fix typos.
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08-11-2014, 10:53 AM
RE: Here we go...
(08-11-2014 10:19 AM)Clockwork Wrote:  On another (non-religious) site, something made a blanket stateo about atheists, to which I said atheism is just one part of a puzzle. We don't go around telling people what to believe. To which another said:

Quote:
I don't think that is entirely true about people loving to tell atheist what atheist think. I will give you their are some fanatics out there who do regurgitate things true and false about atheist, but lets face facts Atheist love to tell people what they think all on their own. I remember when no one bothered with atheist at all, it was something that just was like every other religion, but then atheist started taking everybody to court and now here we are.


I replied most activist groups so that, and that we have the right to defend ourselves when we're told we serve their evil one. Also, what's the difference between posting prayers daily versus secular wisdom?

Is this worth pursuing?

Well, atheists are taking cases to court on the grounds that their rights are being infringed upon. I know the person making the statement wants to go back to those good 'ol days where religious people always got away with this policy of "We get to shove our beliefs down your throat all we want, and if you don't like it, then too damn bad! Just shut up and take it!"

We also fight against things like teaching creationism in public schools, because it is unacceptable for children to be taught that science and magic have the same credibility. We don't take things with evidence, then put them on the same shelf as books who use magic as an explanation and say "These are equally credible." I won't accept my child being taught bullshit because it makes some other schmoe feel good to be told that all the magic explanations he was told were true have the same credibility as science. Besides, if these whiny creationists were being taught somebody else's magical explanations they'd be throwing the world's biggest hissy fit. Have a school in the "Bible Belt" in the U.S. start teaching kids about Islam, and say that it's just as credible as science or Christianity, and then see how badly those parents freak out.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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09-11-2014, 08:01 AM
RE: Here we go...
(08-11-2014 10:19 AM)Clockwork Wrote:  On another (non-religious) site, something made a blanket statement about atheists, to which I said atheism is just one part of a puzzle. We don't go around telling people what to believe. To which another said:

Quote:
I don't think that is entirely true about people loving to tell atheist what atheist think. I will give you their are some fanatics out there who do regurgitate things true and false about atheist, but lets face facts Atheist love to tell people what they think all on their own. I remember when no one bothered with atheist at all, it was something that just was like every other religion, but then atheist started taking everybody to court and now here we are.


I replied:

Clockwork Wrote:Let's put it this way. Most atheists don't. Smile  The activist groups don't always speak for the majority of the people they claim to represent.

But what's the difference between someone posting prayers every day versus someone posting secular words of wisdom? And considering most religious people are quick to tell me I'm serving their evil one, why can't I defend myself?



Is this worth pursuing?

Edited to fix typos.

He's conflating 'atheist' and 'secular'. And anyone who capitalizes atheist in that manner is a fucking dolt.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-11-2014, 09:10 AM
RE: Here we go...
Taking people to court and winning, mind you. i.e. pointing out that their actions are not lawful. So they prefer to live in a world where people can perform illegal actions and not be brought to book for it?

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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09-11-2014, 12:07 PM
Re: Here we go...
He actually backed down fast. Not sure why, but thanks to you all I was gearing up for a long fight. But do keep on in case it flares up again.

My opinion in all the lawsuits and court cases: it's not an atheist issue, it's a secular one. As has been stated, secularists and many religious people do agree because it's good for all in long run. Here's some hypothetical hyperbole: some xian churches baptize their people every week. What if the Catholics decided to tax overuse of water?

In a real-life situation, I'm hearing about sharia law becoming an issue. Would they want areas of the country that allow these sort of acts? What about the old blue laws that limit business on Sundays; they affect Seventh Day Adventists who have Saturday sabbath. Do I want my nieces to be told that a magical wizard created flesh golems that were our ancestors?

I don't see this as an atheist issue or atheist cases. We're just the only ones who have the courage to stand up against zealots who insist their religion and theirs only become law.

(Side note: Here in NC, one of our cases before our gay marriage ban was overturned was a group of clergy who wanted it overturned. Their reason? It violated their rights and did not support separation of church & state. So maybe some have a clue.)
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09-11-2014, 09:25 PM
RE: Here we go...
(08-11-2014 10:53 AM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  Have a school in the "Bible Belt" in the U.S. start teaching kids about Islam, and say that it's just as credible as science or Christianity, and then see how badly those parents freak out.

You can't just say that without evidence!!
... So here's some. Tongue

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-aghHd_Wj84#

On cell phone so I hope the above link works.
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09-11-2014, 09:40 PM
RE: Here we go...
(08-11-2014 10:19 AM)Clockwork Wrote:  On another (non-religious) site, something made a blanket statement about atheists, to which I said atheism is just one part of a puzzle. We don't go around telling people what to believe. To which another said:

Quote:
I don't think that is entirely true about people loving to tell atheist what atheist think. I will give you their are some fanatics out there who do regurgitate things true and false about atheist, but lets face facts Atheist love to tell people what they think all on their own. I remember when no one bothered with atheist at all, it was something that just was like every other religion, but then atheist started taking everybody to court and now here we are.


I replied:

Clockwork Wrote:Let's put it this way. Most atheists don't. Smile  The activist groups don't always speak for the majority of the people they claim to represent.

But what's the difference between someone posting prayers every day versus someone posting secular words of wisdom? And considering most religious people are quick to tell me I'm serving their evil one, why can't I defend myself?



Is this worth pursuing?

Edited to fix typos.

We started taking people to court because the religious nuts have been zealously supporting political candidates into office, who then write laws that affect everyone, regardless of your religious belief or non belief, they are quick to tell us who we can marry, how we can have sex, strive to stop stem cell research and block abortion rights, all based on their religious beliefs...THAT is why we got engaged.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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09-11-2014, 10:11 PM
RE: Here we go...
Ya damned atheists and your lawsuits! :shakes fist:


As has already been pointed out, "atheist" and "secularist" are two separate things. As a matter of fact, there are many theists who are also secularists. The terms are not mutually exclusive. Remember: All thumbs are fingers, but not all fingers are thumbs. Thumbsup
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