Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
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09-06-2017, 10:04 AM
Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
Sorry if this is wrong place, I did think about posting this elsewhere, but hopefully we can keep things light-hearted for it to stay here!

SO, more of a random thing I had thought of today, but what are your thoughts on Culture/Heritage and what it means to be Patriotic?

Normally I associate Culture with those that have it, IE here in England we don't really have much to go on, compared to say India or China, other the fact the British stole most things many moons ago anyway. Thus I have nothing much to share other than random slang words, cups of tea and a large amount of pessimism that I use to "Keep calm and carry on".

However, this leads me into Heritage. What is your heritage? do you have anything you are particularly proud of OR anything you'd like to get away from?

For example: My family has seemingly always been based in England, as far back as we've looked anyway. Over the years the family has slowly degraded from the good to the bad, [3 generations back] a chef for royalty, [2 generations back] a soldier for the British Army, [1 generations back] a drug dealing criminal.....and then Me, a totally law abiding "normal" person who works in IT lol.

I'm proud of some things, but have worked hard to escape that previous generation, [My dad], and it's stigma that it's had on the family so far. Luckily that has mostly gone away and I have hope for my daughter. Generally as well, with so far the exception of myself, every generation has divorced and re-married at least once, so thats something I'm looking to break the streak on.

THEN, there is being Patriotic. Do you love your country? Would you die for it? Or is it just a land mass, like all land masses, that has a pretty flag and a theme song?

Anyway, discuss and do a thing Smile

[feel free to move if in the wrong area.]

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09-06-2017, 10:11 AM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
I'm proud of my Irish heritage. It's something I was raised with as part of my identity. I'm also a little Polish as well, and it was interesting learning a few Polish swear words from my grandma Laugh out load as well as trying some of the traditional eats. Drooling

To me being patriotic, is having love and respect for your country, being thankful for your freedom and your safety--because not everyone in the world gets to have that. Being patriotic is more about the principles you stand for (i.e. freedom) as a group of people and less about the land itself (although, the land is obviously a part of all of that).
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09-06-2017, 10:18 AM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
Patriotism is as fierce as a fever, pitiless as the grave, blind as a stone, and irrational as a headless hen. - Ambrose Bierce

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.– Samuel Johnson

Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. – George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is a pernicious, psychopathic form of idiocy. – George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is an ephemeral motive that scarcely ever outlasts the particular threat to society that aroused it. – Denis Diderot

To me, it seems a dreadful indignity to have a soul controlled by geography. – George Santayana

Patriotism is the passion of fools and the most foolish of passions. – Arthur Schopenhauer

Patriotism corrupts history. – Goethe

Conceit, arrogance, and egotism are the essentials of patriotism. ... Patriotism assumes that our globe is divided into little spots, each one surrounded by an iron gate. Those who have had the fortune of being born on some particular spot, consider themselves better, nobler, grander, more intelligent than the living beings inhabiting any other spot. It is, therefore, the duty of everyone living on that chosen spot to fight, kill, and die in the attempt to impose his superiority upon all the others. - Emma Goldman

Do you want me to clarify further how I feel? Rolleyes

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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09-06-2017, 10:40 AM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
Patriotism for me is a disease, irrational "love" for arbitrarily defined mass of soil. I don't love my country and I doubt that so called patriots love it. It's easy to claim such and spout nonsense about being willing to kill invaders in imaginary wars but actually working to improve shit-hole called Poland isn't something that alleged patriots are willing to do.

I wouldn't die for it. Why should I allow myself to get conned to benefits autocratic rulers of this silly country and it's church loving populace? Why should I be willing to die when punks with rich and influential parents won't have to join army?

Lastly I'm not proud of being Pole, nor I'm understand such pride. Fact that my parents happened to fuck in certain territory isn't something to be proud off.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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09-06-2017, 10:41 AM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
(09-06-2017 10:04 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  However, this leads me into Heritage. What is your heritage? do you have anything you are particularly proud of OR anything you'd like to get away from?

I always held the opinion that it's stupid to be proud of the coincidence of birth. Only of what you achieved yourself or - to some extent - of what your family did.

I'm proud that most of my family fought fascism. And by that I mean, actually going to war, such as fighting in the Austrian and Spanish Civil war or to go underground to do something about it.

As for my heritage, there's quite a lot to choose from. Hungarian, Bohemian, German, jewish. In short, most of what the Austro Hungarian empire had to offer.

[Image: Labrador%20and%20Title.jpg]
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09-06-2017, 10:50 AM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
Sadly, "heritage" and "patriotism" have become hijacked by the alt-right and, oddly, their counterparts on the left.

If one discusses one's pride in Western European heritage, one is often targeted as "privileged" or even borderline neo-Nazi. Try talking about the advancements in science, culture and medicine done by Western Europeans to a group of Black Lives Matter activists and see how far you get.

And "patriotism" has morphed from true concern for the national interest to right-wing "love it or leave it" mentality.

The fellow who stabbed two people on a Portland train as they were trying to defend someone shouted out, "You call it terrorism I call it patriotism!" It's standard operating procedure for the alt-right and their handlers, couching everything in patriotic language, even aligning their little candyass groups with The Patriot Movement and the like. See Christian Patriots, a website chock full of lies, deceit and outright hate.

The terms used to stand for something positive, but not anymore.
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09-06-2017, 10:53 AM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
(09-06-2017 10:50 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  The terms used to stand for something positive

I think Alexandre Pope, Samuel Johnson and a couple of the older guys from my post might beg to differ Rolleyes

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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09-06-2017, 11:00 AM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
(09-06-2017 10:50 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  If one discusses one's pride in Western European heritage, one is often targeted as "privileged" or even borderline neo-Nazi. Try talking about the advancements in science, culture and medicine done by Western Europeans to a group of Black Lives Matter activists and see how far you get.

If one didn't help with said advancements then one had nothing to be proud about I would say.

Quote:And "patriotism" has morphed from true concern for the national interest to right-wing "love it or leave it" mentality.

Was patriotism ever this or this is just yearning for good old days?

Quote:The terms used to stand for something positive, but not anymore.

I doubt that there were much positiveness into this terms to begin with.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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09-06-2017, 11:10 AM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
Patriotism, as an aspect of cultural evolution and like any deep emotional connection to one of the many various symbols out there with a devoted following, allows groups of people larger than the groups in which their biologically tuned sense of belonging was meant to regularly associate with to work towards a common goal they don't fully understand by virtue of being united behind something recognizable that they believe they have in common. I don't love my country(ies), per say. America and Canada are just words. But I recognize that my survival is dependent on the society built around those words, and I'll fill the patriotic role when it seems like the most practical way to solve a problem, achieve an objective, or fit in with an ignorant mass whose assistance I need or whose company I enjoy.

'Murican Canadian
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09-06-2017, 11:18 AM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
(09-06-2017 11:00 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Was patriotism ever this or this is just yearning for good old days?

When I think of a time when Canada was most patriotic, I think of the war years when we were united against a common foe, and 1967, during the Centennial celebrations. (I was alive in '67, not so much during the war years.)

It seems to me that during those times "patriotism" was a positive, motivating force, and had little to do with a yearning for an idealized past that never really existed.

That bit started, I think, with Ronald Reagan and his harkening back to a 1950's style America and has devolved into the "love it or leave it" alt-right thing that's currently popular among Trump voters and other shallow thinkers.
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