Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
20-06-2017, 03:05 PM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
(20-06-2017 01:35 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(20-06-2017 12:57 PM)Gaest Wrote:  Here are a few qoutes from a peer review paper based on field studies in India and Canada:

“Organizing a langar has always required attention to many details, in addition to adequate funds. [8] Gurdwaras require kitchens and an adjoining space for people to eat. In most larger gurdwaras, both inside and outside India, ordinary worshippers volunteer to prepare food daily, and the food is available all day long. In those with smaller congregations, langar follows the main weekly services.
(…)
Four core Sikh principles are enshrined in the langar: equality, hospitality, service, and charity. When asked about langar, Sikhs in both India and Canada most often cite equality as the core component. All those who eat sit in rows, side by side, Sikh and non-Sikh, rich and poor. Often, though not always in both India and Canada, men and women sit together, reinforcing this principle of equality, especially in situations where it is not common for men and women to be acting in this way in public. Moreover, langar food preparation is also usually open to all. In all the gurdwaras we have visited, as participant observers who self-identified as a non-Sikh couple, volunteers have welcomed our requests to help [Fig. 8], though they have typically been far more exuberant in encouraging us to partake of the food!”

Desjardins, Michel. Desjardins, Ellen. "Food that Builds Community: The Sikh Langar in Canada." Cuizine 1, no. 2 (2009): 0–0. DOI:10.7202/037851ar

Don't change a thing. I read about good or "good" that religion is causing but I haven't seen it. On the other hand I quite often talk with people warped by religion (fags should be killed, abortion is murder, only god can end suffering - euthanasia) and there is no shortage of books showing why religion is bad.

By religion I mean mostly catholicism or maybe even it's Polish mutation as I don't lived abroad long enough to judge things there. Though I think that religion in general is harmful given it's mechanism of spreading; I agree with Marx diagnosis. Religion is opiate of the masses.

Quote:I don't read Polish - and I won't repay the curtesy by throwing Danish papers at you - is it talking about religions in general or primarily in relation to Christianity?

And the "not all" is a bit too key to be reserved to parentheses, IMO.

Catholicism mostly - look above.

Document is about Polish catholics and it shows that religious views influence one stance towards abortion the most. Not education nor social class matters as much.

As for not all - don't remember meeting believer who wouldn't want people living by his rules. I'm certain that such people exists and it seems to be quite a number of them but I can't recall conversation with believer that wouldn't contain phrase - people should do what my religion say.

All in all I can say that I've only read about whatever good religion allegedly offer but I have both read about and seen it's manifold downsides. I live in country where religion or religious backed arguments are used to settle debates so my view of religion is far from rosy.

Edit:
(20-06-2017 01:22 PM)Gaest Wrote:  Erh, that one example was me poking at Szuchow's sweeping generalisation about never having seen something good tied to religion. That it set you off like a rocket is not really my problem.

It's not sweeping generalization but accurate showing of my experience with religion. If memory serves I wrote Never seen something good tied to religion not religion can't be used for good under any circumstances.

Fair enough Smile I took it as more general comment, but if it only applies to your specific experiences with religion then I obviously can't argue against it.
If you ever come across a Sikh tempel I suggest you go in for a free meal, and maybe you'll then see religion doing something good.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-06-2017, 03:09 PM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
(20-06-2017 02:24 PM)Vera Wrote:  And I wasn't saying let's strangle the last king with the entrails of the last priest.

And what would you think would happen if that happens? Do you really think that humanity would suddenly get along and pink elephants and fairies would float from everyone's asshole? No, they would rally behind the next available flag, ideology, philosophy to feel special and exclusive. The tribal nature of us chimp descendants won't change anytime soon. So I go with better the devil you know.

[Image: Labrador%20and%20Title.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-06-2017, 03:14 PM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
(20-06-2017 02:24 PM)Vera Wrote:  And I wasn't saying let's strangle the last king with the entrails of the last priest.

FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Vera's post
20-06-2017, 03:18 PM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
(20-06-2017 03:14 PM)Vera Wrote:  FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

Sorry, misread.

[Image: Labrador%20and%20Title.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes abaris's post
20-06-2017, 03:21 PM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
Happens to the best of us, abaris. And frankly, I'd rather no elephants came out any of my orifices, pink or otherwise (the elephants, not the orifices Dodgy ), thank you very much Rolleyes

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-06-2017, 03:23 PM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
(20-06-2017 03:05 PM)Gaest Wrote:  
(20-06-2017 01:35 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Don't change a thing. I read about good or "good" that religion is causing but I haven't seen it. On the other hand I quite often talk with people warped by religion (fags should be killed, abortion is murder, only god can end suffering - euthanasia) and there is no shortage of books showing why religion is bad.

By religion I mean mostly catholicism or maybe even it's Polish mutation as I don't lived abroad long enough to judge things there. Though I think that religion in general is harmful given it's mechanism of spreading; I agree with Marx diagnosis. Religion is opiate of the masses.


Catholicism mostly - look above.

Document is about Polish catholics and it shows that religious views influence one stance towards abortion the most. Not education nor social class matters as much.

As for not all - don't remember meeting believer who wouldn't want people living by his rules. I'm certain that such people exists and it seems to be quite a number of them but I can't recall conversation with believer that wouldn't contain phrase - people should do what my religion say.

All in all I can say that I've only read about whatever good religion allegedly offer but I have both read about and seen it's manifold downsides. I live in country where religion or religious backed arguments are used to settle debates so my view of religion is far from rosy.

Edit:
It's not sweeping generalization but accurate showing of my experience with religion. If memory serves I wrote Never seen something good tied to religion not religion can't be used for good under any circumstances.

Fair enough Smile I took it as more general comment, but if it only applies to your specific experiences with religion then I obviously can't argue against it.
If you ever come across a Sikh tempel I suggest you go in for a free meal, and maybe you'll then see religion doing something good.

No Sikh temples here as far as I know.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Szuchow's post
20-06-2017, 03:25 PM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
(20-06-2017 01:21 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(20-06-2017 01:08 PM)abaris Wrote:  If it outweighs the bad is anyone's guess.

Inquisition? Crusades? Jihads? Need I go on? There is NO if. Never was, never will be.

And that's not even getting into the whole "you're born broken and inherently unworthy", holding back science and the quest for knowledge and generally crushing any independent thought and humanity's spirit.

Community building? Charity? Champagne? And those are just some of the ones beginning with "C"! I think this game will get boring pretty quickly.

Quote:Only "good" it's done is due to its members' inherent empathy and people being social animals. Religion does NOT get to get the credit for this.

How do you define religion?
Because I assume you consider it to be something cultural created by people, but somehow it's completely external to them when it comes to people being social animals that feels empathy? I am genuinely confused about your position here.

As a bonus the above request will require you to not use Christianity as a representative archetype of "a religion" Wink
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-06-2017, 04:07 PM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
(20-06-2017 03:25 PM)Gaest Wrote:  How do you define religion?
Because I assume you consider it to be something cultural created by people, but somehow it's completely external to them when it comes to people being social animals that feels empathy? I am genuinely confused about your position here.

Religion at it's base is a philosophy. Every philosophy can be turned into ideology. That's when things get ugly. When it starts to get exclusive.

[Image: Labrador%20and%20Title.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like abaris's post
20-06-2017, 05:59 PM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
(19-06-2017 07:01 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Better the pride that resides
in a citizen of the world
than the pride that divides
when a colorful rag is unfurled.


Wit + Brevity = Excellent

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes whateverist's post
20-06-2017, 06:08 PM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
(20-06-2017 02:06 PM)abaris Wrote:  
(20-06-2017 01:21 PM)Vera Wrote:  Inquisition? Crusades? Jihads? Need I go on? There is NO if. Never was, never will be.

No, you needn't. I'm a historian, thank you very much. But I do appreciate the stance the churches take against xenophobia, anti muslim bigotry and overall bigotry in my country and pretty much the whole of Europe. I also appreciate that they do pick up the homeless or at the vey least feed them. With a few exceptions, such as Poland.


Personally I'd prefer to see this handled on purpose on the public's dime, but yeah, if charity of the medievally minded is the best we can do .. yeah, fine. Those in need can't wait while we quibble.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes whateverist's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: