Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
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20-06-2017, 01:07 PM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
Why, thank you, I think I'm rather sweet, too Drinking Beverage

Also, sorry, but I will never be able to take a religious Scandinavian person seriously. Being brainwashed in the Bible belt I get. Believing in crap (whatever your crap du choice might be) in a Scandinavian society requires a whole other level of... well, yeah Drinking Beverage

So, in the millennia we've had religions, only thing you could come up with was someone feeding poor people. Yeah, a true force for good religion is, truly! Facepalm

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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20-06-2017, 01:08 PM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
(20-06-2017 07:39 AM)Vera Wrote:  Imagine having to dig *this* deep to find even a sliver of good that the vileness that is religion has brought to the world? You know what, cupcake, as usual, it's people doing this, not a bunch of silly myths and beliefs.

You don't have to dig this deep. Religion, depending on it's interpretation, can provide good or bad. There's a lot of good being done by religious people and denominations. If it outweighs the bad is anyone's guess.

I'm only at war with the radicals. The moderates can be allies in quite many things. I'm not at war with religion as such.

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20-06-2017, 01:21 PM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
(20-06-2017 01:08 PM)abaris Wrote:  If it outweighs the bad is anyone's guess.

Inquisition? Crusades? Jihads? Need I go on? There is NO if. Never was, never will be.

And that's not even getting into the whole "you're born broken and inherently unworthy", holding back science and the quest for knowledge and generally crushing any independent thought and humanity's spirit.

Only "good" it's done is due to its members' inherent empathy and people being social animals. Religion does NOT get to get the credit for this. Not after saddling humanity with so much guilt.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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20-06-2017, 01:22 PM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
(20-06-2017 01:07 PM)Vera Wrote:  Why, thank you, I think I'm rather sweet, too Drinking Beverage

Not really, but you definitely have the cultural nuance of a cupcake...

Quote:Also, sorry, but I will never be able to take a religious Scandinavian person seriously. Being brainwashed in the Bible belt I get. Believing in crap (whatever your crap du choice might be) in a Scandinavian society requires a whole other level of... well, yeah Drinking Beverage

Rolleyes Vera, you quite clearly know next to nothing about religion in Scandinavian societies.

Quote:So, in the millennia we've had religions, only thing you could come up with was someone feeding poor people. Yeah, a true force for good religion is, truly! Facepalm

Erh, that one example was me poking at Szuchow's sweeping generalisation about never having seen something good tied to religion. That it set you off like a rocket is not really my problem.
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20-06-2017, 01:24 PM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
(20-06-2017 01:22 PM)Gaest Wrote:  Not really, but you definitely have the cultural nuance of a cupcake...

Your attempts at humour need work. Lots of it. Drinking Beverage

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20-06-2017, 01:35 PM (This post was last modified: 20-06-2017 01:41 PM by Szuchow.)
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
(20-06-2017 12:57 PM)Gaest Wrote:  Here are a few qoutes from a peer review paper based on field studies in India and Canada:

“Organizing a langar has always required attention to many details, in addition to adequate funds. [8] Gurdwaras require kitchens and an adjoining space for people to eat. In most larger gurdwaras, both inside and outside India, ordinary worshippers volunteer to prepare food daily, and the food is available all day long. In those with smaller congregations, langar follows the main weekly services.
(…)
Four core Sikh principles are enshrined in the langar: equality, hospitality, service, and charity. When asked about langar, Sikhs in both India and Canada most often cite equality as the core component. All those who eat sit in rows, side by side, Sikh and non-Sikh, rich and poor. Often, though not always in both India and Canada, men and women sit together, reinforcing this principle of equality, especially in situations where it is not common for men and women to be acting in this way in public. Moreover, langar food preparation is also usually open to all. In all the gurdwaras we have visited, as participant observers who self-identified as a non-Sikh couple, volunteers have welcomed our requests to help [Fig. 8], though they have typically been far more exuberant in encouraging us to partake of the food!”

Desjardins, Michel. Desjardins, Ellen. "Food that Builds Community: The Sikh Langar in Canada." Cuizine 1, no. 2 (2009): 0–0. DOI:10.7202/037851ar

Don't change a thing. I read about good or "good" that religion is causing but I haven't seen it. On the other hand I quite often talk with people warped by religion (fags should be killed, abortion is murder, only god can end suffering - euthanasia) and there is no shortage of books showing why religion is bad.

By religion I mean mostly catholicism or maybe even it's Polish mutation as I don't lived abroad long enough to judge things there. Though I think that religion in general is harmful given it's mechanism of spreading; I agree with Marx diagnosis. Religion is opiate of the masses.

Quote:I don't read Polish - and I won't repay the curtesy by throwing Danish papers at you - is it talking about religions in general or primarily in relation to Christianity?

And the "not all" is a bit too key to be reserved to parentheses, IMO.

Catholicism mostly - look above.

Document is about Polish catholics and it shows that religious views influence one stance towards abortion the most. Not education nor social class matters as much.

As for not all - don't remember meeting believer who wouldn't want people living by his rules. I'm certain that such people exists and it seems to be quite a number of them but I can't recall conversation with believer that wouldn't contain phrase - people should do what my religion say.

All in all I can say that I've only read about whatever good religion allegedly offer but I have both read about and seen it's manifold downsides. I live in country where religion or religious backed arguments are used to settle debates so my view of religion is far from rosy.

Edit:
(20-06-2017 01:22 PM)Gaest Wrote:  Erh, that one example was me poking at Szuchow's sweeping generalisation about never having seen something good tied to religion. That it set you off like a rocket is not really my problem.

It's not sweeping generalization but accurate showing of my experience with religion. If memory serves I wrote Never seen something good tied to religion not religion can't be used for good under any circumstances.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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20-06-2017, 02:06 PM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
(20-06-2017 01:21 PM)Vera Wrote:  Inquisition? Crusades? Jihads? Need I go on? There is NO if. Never was, never will be.

No, you needn't. I'm a historian, thank you very much. But I do appreciate the stance the churches take against xenophobia, anti muslim bigotry and overall bigotry in my country and pretty much the whole of Europe. I also appreciate that they do pick up the homeless or at the vey least feed them. With a few exceptions, such as Poland.

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20-06-2017, 02:08 PM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
Oh, so we should be grateful that after all those blood-drenched centuries they've finally decided to evolve like the rest of society?

No, thanks.

And you don't need to be a historian to know about the Inquisition and the rest. Ever heard of such a thing as "expression"? "Figure of speech"? Facepalm

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20-06-2017, 02:15 PM
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
(20-06-2017 02:08 PM)Vera Wrote:  Oh, so we should be grateful that after all those blood-drenched centuries they've finally decided to evolve like the rest of society?

I don't need to excuse what happened in the past to appreciate what they're doing now. Today is important, with all the new social challenges the populous parties presemt. Not what happened centuries ago.

So, again, not taking on still influencal allies against a toxit social climate is the stupid thing to do. Even more so, since they have no political influence in most European countries right now. But they still have a sufficient amount of clout amongst their followers to steer them away from bordelrine fascism.

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20-06-2017, 02:24 PM (This post was last modified: 20-06-2017 02:28 PM by Vera.)
RE: Heritage/Patriotism/Culture
And I wasn't saying let's strangle the last king with the entrails of the last priest.

Whether (some) churches in (some) countries may have a more positive effect on their herd of sheep than a negative one is somewhat debatable, but I'll give you that some Western European churches may be somewhat more evolved than the rest of their siblings.

This doesn't change the fact that religion has hardly been a force for good in this world while its vile heritage is plainly visible to this day.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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