"Hero" Woship (Opinions of the military servicemen)
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Votes - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
12-09-2012, 09:46 AM
RE: "Hero" Woship (Opinions of the military servicemen)
(12-09-2012 07:32 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(11-09-2012 01:26 PM)nach_in Wrote:  That's exactly my point, thank you Big Grin

I want to say this again, I'm not saying is a mortal sin to be a soldier or anything like that, I'm just explaining my reasons not to think soldiers are heroes by default... I insist because I know it sounds rather pretentious and moralist and that's not the idea Undecided

I read all your posts. My conclusion is that you are projecting your view of the Argentinian military onto another country's military. That's just not right.

As for the war and the military. It is an evil, but we must partake in it. It is necessary, it is part of human evolution. You want to complain? Take it up with natural selection and human nature. Try to change that? Good luck doing it within your lifetime.

The U.S and NATO are the only armies standing in the way of total annihilation of world order. You disband them, the enemies who don't give a shit about your pacifist views will be enabled to kill you.

As for respecting soldiers, I have to. They are willing to do things that I am not. They subject themselves to physical and psychological torment, they give up their complete freedom and join military culture. Every one of them did something I cannot, will not do. I can respect them and not have to respect some things that they have done.

I never knocked the reality of the warlikeness of humans. Doesn't mean I have to like it. And, yes, it makes military necessary. However, some of the wars are not necessary.

I don't think most people who sign up with the military do it so they can risk their life in the trenches or kill people. I think there are financial and personal reasons, and they just end up in precarious situations. I see them more as innocents walking into crap than heroes.

[Image: dobie.png]

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-09-2012, 11:03 AM
RE: "Hero" Woship (Opinions of the military servicemen)
(11-09-2012 06:18 AM)TheDoctorPhil Wrote:  I see military, war, etc. as a necessary evil.
Care to elaborate?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-09-2012, 12:14 PM
RE: "Hero" Woship (Opinions of the military servicemen)
(12-09-2012 07:32 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(11-09-2012 01:26 PM)nach_in Wrote:  That's exactly my point, thank you Big Grin

I want to say this again, I'm not saying is a mortal sin to be a soldier or anything like that, I'm just explaining my reasons not to think soldiers are heroes by default... I insist because I know it sounds rather pretentious and moralist and that's not the idea Undecided

I read all your posts. My conclusion is that you are projecting your view of the Argentinian military onto another country's military. That's just not right.

As for the war and the military. It is an evil, but we must partake in it. It is necessary, it is part of human evolution. You want to complain? Take it up with natural selection and human nature. Try to change that? Good luck doing it within your lifetime.

The U.S and NATO are the only armies standing in the way of total annihilation of world order. You disband them, the enemies who don't give a shit about your pacifist views will be enabled to kill you.

As for respecting soldiers, I have to. They are willing to do things that I am not. They subject themselves to physical and psychological torment, they give up their complete freedom and join military culture. Every one of them did something I cannot, will not do. I can respect them and not have to respect some things that they have done.

I probably am, that's why I said I was biased beforehand.
The problem I see though is, how can we say that participating in a necessary evil institution is morally good? isn't there a contradiction somewhere?

[Image: sigvacachica.png]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-09-2012, 12:22 PM
RE: "Hero" Woship (Opinions of the military servicemen)
(12-09-2012 12:14 PM)nach_in Wrote:  
(12-09-2012 07:32 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  I read all your posts. My conclusion is that you are projecting your view of the Argentinian military onto another country's military. That's just not right.

As for the war and the military. It is an evil, but we must partake in it. It is necessary, it is part of human evolution. You want to complain? Take it up with natural selection and human nature. Try to change that? Good luck doing it within your lifetime.

The U.S and NATO are the only armies standing in the way of total annihilation of world order. You disband them, the enemies who don't give a shit about your pacifist views will be enabled to kill you.

As for respecting soldiers, I have to. They are willing to do things that I am not. They subject themselves to physical and psychological torment, they give up their complete freedom and join military culture. Every one of them did something I cannot, will not do. I can respect them and not have to respect some things that they have done.

I probably am, that's why I said I was biased beforehand.
The problem I see though is, how can we say that participating in a necessary evil institution is morally good? isn't there a contradiction somewhere?

It is not an inherently evil institution. There are threats in the world. It would be stupid to not have a military. One could argue that it would be immoral not to have a military.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
12-09-2012, 03:32 PM
RE: "Hero" Woship (Opinions of the military servicemen)
(11-09-2012 03:18 PM)TheDoctorPhil Wrote:  Look fucktard... did it ever occur to you that America isn't the only country on the planet? He's from the Czech Republic so he's probably talking about those "certain" countries because they've rolled down his street in real life.

I've heard about you... get lost troll.
Yeah, well, it sure sounded like he was bad mouthing the wonderful USA in a thread that is all about the irrational justification of the USA military???

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-09-2012, 04:11 PM
RE: "Hero" Woship (Opinions of the military servicemen)
(12-09-2012 11:03 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(11-09-2012 06:18 AM)TheDoctorPhil Wrote:  I see military, war, etc. as a necessary evil.
Care to elaborate?

I mean I wish we could all live peacefully and without violence. Unfortunately that is not the case. That's why war and militaries are a necessary evil.

Give to every human being every right that you claim for yourself. - Robert Ingersoll
[Image: jVZNc.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-09-2012, 03:39 PM
RE: "Hero" Woship (Opinions of the military servicemen)
(12-09-2012 04:11 PM)TheDoctorPhil Wrote:  I mean I wish we could all live peacefully and without violence. Unfortunately that is not the case. That's why war and militaries are a necessary evil.

The world is over-populated, as well.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-09-2012, 06:48 PM (This post was last modified: 13-09-2012 07:11 PM by Diablo.)
RE: "Hero" Woship (Opinions of the military servicemen)
(11-09-2012 11:03 PM)TheDoctorPhil Wrote:  
(11-09-2012 10:10 PM)Diablo666 Wrote:  Meanwhile, cops (many of whom have a far more dangerous job than those serving in many branches of the military) are considered shit or not considered at all.

I have to disagree with you. Between 2001 and 2010 5,877 US troops were killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. In the same timeframe 1,636 US police officers were killed in the states. In terms of wounded or injured in the same ammount of time, 42,018 US troops were injured while 158,328 US police officers were injured.

Without all the fluff:

2001-2010

5,877 US troops KIA
1,636 US police KIA

42,018 US troops injured
157,328 US police injured

With all that being said, I think its safe to say that the military (statistically speaking) is more dangerous assuming of course that death is the most dangerous outcome.

Sources:
http://icasualties.org/
http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fata...facts.html

What are the #s of cops compared to service men though? There are like 1.5 million people serving in the military.

"There are as of 2006, 683,396 full time state, city, university and college, metropolitan and non-metropolitan county, and other law enforcement officers in the United States. There are approx. 120,000 full time law enforcement personnel working for the federal government adding up to a total number of 800,000 law enforcement personnel in the U.S."

So, like half that of military, which brings our totals much more closer in line. However, if you notice I said many branches of the military. If you look outside the army and marines, you will notice that there are almost no fatalities.

And I know the first thing you will thinking is that its not fair to take those people out of the equation, but the thing is that servicemen generally get mutual props no matter the branch. You could also list more dangerous cities for cops too. I am sure the average is wildly skewed for them as well.

(11-09-2012 10:49 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(11-09-2012 10:10 PM)Diablo666 Wrote:  Veterans today are treated like saints. Ya ya I know there are some veterans with medical expenses that are rough, but that's just the entire shitty health care system in this country.

On the media though, yah they are saints and its pretty much completely undeserved in todays age. WW2 sure, you could fork over some respect to those guys who had to endure those hardships, and even volunteered for it. Thats something. But today, your safer in the Navy than a fishing boat.

Its sort of like the firefighters. No one gave two shits, then 9-11 happened and suddenly they are all amazing heroes.
Meanwhile, cops (many of whom have a far more dangerous job than those serving in many branches of the military) are considered shit or not considered at all.

Its all the media, and right now the media says they are saints, so herp derp thats what everyone else thinks too.

While I don't fully disagree with everything you said, you are ignorant. For one, yes, WWII was probably a scarier war, but if you think it isn't dangerous you are very wrong. It is a different type of warfare against a different type of "soldier". You can die just driving along the street, or walking for that matter. Whether it's moral or immoral to go, it takes balls to go fight, and yes, risk your life. Two, if you think your safe in the Navy you are wrong again. I was active Navy for 5 years, now a reservist, and you can bet your sweet as I got shot at my fair share of times. I saw plenty of Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, and even a few Coast Guardsmen. Yes their are some folks that have relatively safe jobs in the sandbox, but I can assure you every branch has people in some dangerous places. You think they don't all endure hardships? You try leaving your family and friends to go to an uncertain place half way round the world risking life and limb for months or years at a time, most people go hundreds of days at a time without having a day off, working 12-18 days a day, carrying the majority of their belongings on their backs along with equipment weapons, ammo, body armor, your sleeping gear, and not hearing from your loved ones for weeks at a time. That is hardship you will likely never know.

ROFL! I am ignorant, and you think it was safer in European cities in WW2!? LOL, someone failed history I see.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/casua...htm#afghan

11 years at war 116 deaths. That is only like 10 a year FFS. If the war had not happened there would have probably have been more deaths than that due to car accidents, drug overdoses, random stupidity, binge drinking, etc... than died in service.

I served 5 years, blah blah blah.... Cops endure the same shit, and even worse than your laughable hardships while in service.
You ever watch that movie Black hawk down? The best part of the whole movie, and there weren't many good parts, was when the Capt told the bitch ass pilot he didn't know the 1st thing about serving his country. Well, that's you. You don't know shit about enduring hardships and to suggest you do just makes you sound like a self-entitled little pussy.

The people who live in those shitty countries endure more in a week than your sally sob story, crybaby, bitch ass did those whole 5 years.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-09-2012, 07:39 PM
RE: "Hero" Woship (Opinions of the military servicemen)
(13-09-2012 06:48 PM)Diablo Wrote:  
(11-09-2012 11:03 PM)TheDoctorPhil Wrote:  I have to disagree with you. Between 2001 and 2010 5,877 US troops were killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. In the same timeframe 1,636 US police officers were killed in the states. In terms of wounded or injured in the same ammount of time, 42,018 US troops were injured while 158,328 US police officers were injured.

Without all the fluff:

2001-2010

5,877 US troops KIA
1,636 US police KIA

42,018 US troops injured
157,328 US police injured

With all that being said, I think its safe to say that the military (statistically speaking) is more dangerous assuming of course that death is the most dangerous outcome.

Sources:
http://icasualties.org/
http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fata...facts.html

What are the #s of cops compared to service men though? There are like 1.5 million people serving in the military.

"There are as of 2006, 683,396 full time state, city, university and college, metropolitan and non-metropolitan county, and other law enforcement officers in the United States. There are approx. 120,000 full time law enforcement personnel working for the federal government adding up to a total number of 800,000 law enforcement personnel in the U.S."

So, like half that of military, which brings our totals much more closer in line. However, if you notice I said many branches of the military. If you look outside the army and marines, you will notice that there are almost no fatalities.

And I know the first thing you will thinking is that its not fair to take those people out of the equation, but the thing is that servicemen generally get mutual props no matter the branch. You could also list more dangerous cities for cops too. I am sure the average is wildly skewed for them as well.

(11-09-2012 10:49 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  While I don't fully disagree with everything you said, you are ignorant. For one, yes, WWII was probably a scarier war, but if you think it isn't dangerous you are very wrong. It is a different type of warfare against a different type of "soldier". You can die just driving along the street, or walking for that matter. Whether it's moral or immoral to go, it takes balls to go fight, and yes, risk your life. Two, if you think your safe in the Navy you are wrong again. I was active Navy for 5 years, now a reservist, and you can bet your sweet as I got shot at my fair share of times. I saw plenty of Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, and even a few Coast Guardsmen. Yes their are some folks that have relatively safe jobs in the sandbox, but I can assure you every branch has people in some dangerous places. You think they don't all endure hardships? You try leaving your family and friends to go to an uncertain place half way round the world risking life and limb for months or years at a time, most people go hundreds of days at a time without having a day off, working 12-18 days a day, carrying the majority of their belongings on their backs along with equipment weapons, ammo, body armor, your sleeping gear, and not hearing from your loved ones for weeks at a time. That is hardship you will likely never know.

ROFL! I am ignorant, and you think it was safer in European cities in WW2!? LOL, someone failed history I see.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/casua...htm#afghan

11 years at war 116 deaths. That is only like 10 a year FFS. If the war had not happened there would have probably have been more deaths than that due to car accidents, drug overdoses, random stupidity, binge drinking, etc... than died in service.

I served 5 years, blah blah blah.... Cops endure the same shit, and even worse than your laughable hardships while in service.
You ever watch that movie Black hawk down? The best part of the whole movie, and there weren't many good parts, was when the Capt told the bitch ass pilot he didn't know the 1st thing about serving his country. Well, that's you. You don't know shit about enduring hardships and to suggest you do just makes you sound like a self-entitled little pussy.

The people who live in those shitty countries endure more in a week than your sally sob story, crybaby, bitch ass did those whole 5 years.

I can argue against reason. I can inform the ignorant. I can not fix stupid.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-09-2012, 09:20 PM (This post was last modified: 13-09-2012 09:31 PM by Diablo666.)
RE: "Hero" Woship (Opinions of the military servicemen)
Nice rebuttal you whiny lil bitch. Did you develop arthritis in your fingers from playing xbox during your tour of duty? Ohh my that must be very painful! ROFL!!! You have obviously bought into the hype they feed the stupid public, and somehow actually believe you are some kind of hero. American kids, like you, have way way way too much self confidence! Despite that you have probably accomplished absolutely nothing of significance, you have huge egos and think you are all special.

You SIR are pathetic!!! Your momma has underwear that's endured more hardships then you, you pussy.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: