"Hero" Woship (Opinions of the military servicemen)
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16-09-2012, 01:59 PM
RE: "Hero" Woship (Opinions of the military servicemen)
(16-09-2012 01:31 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-09-2012 01:23 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  To absolute? My opinion, is my opinion, you don't have to like it, or agree with it but as I have said on other posts. "I own myself." If I own myself, no one but me can decide what is done with me. Not the government, not anyone. If they do, I consider that immoral. Maybe you belong to someone else, but I do not.

Children made to brush there teeth against there will is not the same thing. Children do not have the skills, intellect, or experience to take care of themselves. The parents, or guardian has taken the responsibility to care for them until they become able to be independent. Before you make the analogy that government should do the same to us, treat us as if we were children, stop. I am plenty old enough to make my own decisions. I take responsibility for my own actions. If I do harm to myself I have to deal the consequences so why should you care? None of your damn business, like it or not. If I do harm to others, that is a different story altogether. Then I have done what I have been condemning. I have harmed another person, whom I do not own. Then I should be punished by society.

I didn't say or imply that anyone owns you. It is the price of living in the society of other human beings to have to compromise, and that includes limiting people's behavior.

Seeking redress for wrongs is fine, but preventing the wrong in the first place is usually better, hence law and regulation.

To regulate peoples personal behavior shows ownership.

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16-09-2012, 02:51 PM
RE: "Hero" Woship (Opinions of the military servicemen)
(16-09-2012 01:59 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(16-09-2012 01:31 PM)Chas Wrote:  I didn't say or imply that anyone owns you. It is the price of living in the society of other human beings to have to compromise, and that includes limiting people's behavior.

Seeking redress for wrongs is fine, but preventing the wrong in the first place is usually better, hence law and regulation.

To regulate peoples personal behavior shows ownership.

No, it shows cooperation. Your personal behavior insofar as it affects no one else is no one's business. Your actions that affect others is other people's business. We can't have a civil society without boundaries.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-09-2012, 03:08 PM
RE: "Hero" Woship (Opinions of the military servicemen)
(16-09-2012 11:36 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(16-09-2012 01:42 AM)shiranl Wrote:  Who said easily? I said "if you really don't want to serve, you won't serve". But the path towards the release from duty won't be easy. You will sit in jail, you will have a criminal record, you won't be able to get out from the country. And if that is not enough, you'll be a scum in the eyes of the society.

The we are back to my original opinion. It is immoral to force people to do something that is against their will.

It is also immoral to give a fuck towards everything and everyone who made it possible for you to live here as a free man. I did my service because it was my turn. Take for example my uncle, who lost his entire battalion in Yom Kippur war. All his friends from his service were gone. Just like that. My dad would be a bereaved brother if my uncle wasn't in Germany when the war started. My dad also lost one of his best friends in the war, too.
And fortunetally, this is the closest to bereavement I've personnaly been, many others in my country weren't that lucky and they lost friends, sons and daughters, fathers and mothers, sisters and brothers, wives and husbands.

To tell you the truth- I really didn't need that service. I hated every second I was on uniform, I hated the people I served with, I hated my commander and I hated my job. The thought of not finishing my 2 years of service had cross my mind many times. It would be a lot more comfortable to study at the university instead, like other people in my age around the world do.

But it would make me a selfish, spoiled, ungreatful bastard. Last time I checked, this is not the description of a moral person.
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16-09-2012, 05:48 PM
RE: "Hero" Woship (Opinions of the military servicemen)
(16-09-2012 02:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-09-2012 01:59 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  To regulate peoples personal behavior shows ownership.

No, it shows cooperation. Your personal behavior insofar as it affects no one else is no one's business. Your actions that affect others is other people's business. We can't have a civil society without boundaries.

I don't think we are in disagreement.

To shin, I am sorry I don't think you translated your thoughts very well, at least I couldn't follow the first thought.

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16-09-2012, 10:41 PM
RE: "Hero" Woship (Opinions of the military servicemen)
(16-09-2012 02:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-09-2012 01:59 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  To regulate peoples personal behavior shows ownership.

No, it shows cooperation. Your personal behavior insofar as it affects no one else is no one's business. Your actions that affect others is other people's business. We can't have a civil society without boundaries.

To be fair, theres civil siciety where civilians live, and theres miltary service where soldiers live. They both have boundries, but is markedly different places.

Legal Disclaimer: I am right, I reserve the right to be wrong without notice, opinions may change, your statutory rights are not affected, opinions expressed are not my own and are an approximation for the sake of communication.
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17-09-2012, 02:02 AM
RE: "Hero" Woship (Opinions of the military servicemen)
(16-09-2012 05:48 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(16-09-2012 02:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, it shows cooperation. Your personal behavior insofar as it affects no one else is no one's business. Your actions that affect others is other people's business. We can't have a civil society without boundaries.

I don't think we are in disagreement.

To shin, I am sorry I don't think you translated your thoughts very well, at least I couldn't follow the first thought.

I don't think it is my English you don't understand, I think it is the values and situation I come from you don't underdtand. Or you do understand, but refuses to admit there are situations, like my country's situation, where your set of values just doesn't fit. You just want to give a fuck and do what ever you want, I was born in a place where you can't just let everyone to give a fuck, because if you do- this place will be destroyed.
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17-09-2012, 04:42 AM
RE: "Hero" Woship (Opinions of the military servicemen)
I dont think people will like my views.... thats a bit tough though, but ill tone it down and keep it respectfull.

Firstly I dont see people who serve in the military as heros nor do I think I "owe" them anything.... to me people who choose to go down that route and join the military do so with the knowledge in the back of their mind that they may have to kill people..... when they experience it, seeing dead bodies of enemy, children, colleagues etc etc I feel for any human being that has to live with that.... however it was ultimatly your choice that led you there..... its like when I accepted my job as a binman.... I knew I had to cross the road 500+ times a day and I know the risks of using heavy hydraulic machinery.... if I get run over and killed, or get trapped in the hoists and mangled up.... i did it in the "line of duty" and im not called a "hero" nor would I want to be.

Its a job..... and when people are mentally scarred by it then that just goes to show me how negative the worlds armed forces are on the world.

It pisses me off BIG TIME when I see friends and family blindly supporting the army of the UK. A lot of them are very well educated people however they just listen to the one sided mainstream media and put trust and faith that the war is being fought for just reasons and peoples freedoms, even though thousands of innocent people are getting killed they dont think to even question these acts or the reasons behind them........ problem is wars today are not fought for freedom, they are fought for PROFIT.

And everybody involved are just pawns.... they dont give a flying fuck if you die......... they also dont give a flying fuck after you leave the army, I say that because in the UK the charity "help for heros" has to provide for a lot of servicemen and women because my goverment refuse to.

So my goverment will have the masses believe that these people are heros...... then they turn their backs on them..... hipocritcal and illogical... and many dont see it, never mind though.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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17-09-2012, 05:14 AM
RE: "Hero" Woship (Opinions of the military servicemen)
bemore, you just made me realize something.

The views of a person on this issue depends on where he was born, what are the security problems of that place and how that place deals with those problems. Nothing more and nothing less. So, really, we can't determine what's right and what's wrong. So the popularity of your view shouldn't matter you so much.
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17-09-2012, 05:27 AM
RE: "Hero" Woship (Opinions of the military servicemen)
(17-09-2012 05:14 AM)shiranl Wrote:  bemore, you just made me realize something.

The views of a person on this issue depends on where he was born, what are the security problems of that place and how that place deals with those problems. Nothing more and nothing less.

I disagree.... the very nature of this thread is proof.

(17-09-2012 05:14 AM)shiranl Wrote:  So, really, we can't determine what's right and what's wrong. So the popularity of your view shouldn't matter you so much.

The popularity of my view doesnt bother me.... how I go about saying it does though.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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17-09-2012, 05:40 AM
RE: "Hero" Woship (Opinions of the military servicemen)
Quote:I disagree.... the very nature of this thread is proof.

Can you specify? I didn't quite understand what you mean.
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